Yeah, when I was saying there should be zero tolerance, I DID mean zero tolerance towards headhunting, just to clear that up. I pretty much agree completely with what ohm's had to say on the topic...so just go back and re-read his last posting.
Master of Ale!
Yeah, when I was saying there should be zero tolerance, I DID mean zero tolerance towards headhunting, just to clear that up. I pretty much agree completely with what ohm's had to say on the topic...so just go back and re-read his last posting.
E=I*R
Is that what it'll take to have the league actually do something about it? Seriously? I guess dickay was correct then, that the league will be totally reactive?It's not like it's happening every day and guys are being wheeled out of the stadium on stretchers.
You insist that there is something a machine cannot do. If you will tell me precisely what it is that a machine cannot do, then I can always make a machine which will do just that! -J. von Neumann
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This is a big deal now because of that Cubs dude and because of the Red Sox Yankees.
To my knowledge there are very few injuries as the result of pitched balls and many fewer serious injuries as the result of pitched balls.
Intentionally throwing at a guys head, as I said, is borderline criminal and needs to be stopped. If you can figure out how to determine this, then let me and Buddy Selig know.
Cat's suggestion that unless a guy has pen-point control he shouldn't be playing or pitching inside is...well...just not right.
E=I*R
Simple, anything inside and at head level is an automatic ejection. Period, no questions asked. If it really was an "accident", then that's all that would happen. What's the big deal then? I guarantee you that, just as has happened in the NHL, once the zero tolerance rule is imposed that you just won't see it happen any longer (or it'll at least be very rare to see it). Pitches inside aren't the problem, Pitches at the batters head are. A rule about pitching towards the batters head won't prevent pitchers from pitching inside at all, it'll just keep them pitching lower which can only be good. I don't see anything wrong with "living inside", as long as the pitches are only shoulder hight.
You insist that there is something a machine cannot do. If you will tell me precisely what it is that a machine cannot do, then I can always make a machine which will do just that! -J. von Neumann
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Agreed!
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Absolutely disagreed. We've all seen pitches miss the strike zone wildly in all sorts of directions. Some bounce two feet infront of the plate. Some over the catchers glove. SOME pitches will miss wildly near a batters head. The pitcher shouldn't be penalized for this.
Throwing at a guy's head. YES. Missing from time to time and having that miss be in the area of a guy's head. NO.
E=I*R
Who's to decide what's "accidental" and what's "intentional", though? Why even bother trying to make that distinction? In the NHL they took that distinction away, and all of a sudden everyone was able to keep their sticks down. There's still plenty of hooking going on, but everyone has somehow suddenly figured out how to keep their sticks out of opponents faces. Imagine that....
You insist that there is something a machine cannot do. If you will tell me precisely what it is that a machine cannot do, then I can always make a machine which will do just that! -J. von Neumann
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That's fundamentally different than pitching. You don't lose control of your stick while you're skating. You're not throwing it 80+mph. It doesn't matter if your release point is off an inch or your timing by half a second. Every pitcher sometimes airmails one to the plate. Are you also going to penalize a guy for missing 2 feet outside or 2 feet short of the plate?Originally Posted by ohms_law
How do we decide if this new rule is a success? A decrease in ??? what?
I agree. If I'm batting and dude throws at my head there's going to be a problem. But you can't penalize a pitcher for being wild IN ONE PARTICULAR area.
They need to do a study of pitch locations and see if there are a statistically high number of pitches that miss significantly high and inside. If there's not, then this whole things is moot, because we're talking about something that's not a problem
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Well...i had thought Ohms stick argument was a good one but you're bullet points here shoot it down dead. I do believe a committee can review each incident individually after the game and make a determination based on the circumstances. This is actually already done but I believe the power is completely left in the hands of Selig. MLB can enact a committee to review these instead of just Selig and they already have authority to suspend after the fact. They just need to implement it and get more serious about significant penalties. And again I go back and ask if MLB is waiting for Yuke to be put on a stretcher before they do something about Joba continually 'coincidentally' having bad control towards his head.
Actually...i'm not totally sure if Selig is the end all be all. I know in hoops Stern is, but I think baseball already has a committee for this.
E=I*R
Bull... it's a completely comparable situation. It's because you guys obviously don't watch hockey that you can't see it. Hockey is a full contact sport, and players are constantly in motion. Sure, a stick isn't being thrown, but pitchers have much more control over their pitches then hockey players often have over their sticks, especially while skating full speed (on ice, remember!) chasing down the puck handler. Even more extreme, while battling for a loose puck in the corners. To make a statement that "You don't lose control of your stick while you're skating." simply highlights a fundamental ignorance of the sport.Well...i had thought Ohms stick argument was a good one but you're bullet points here shoot it down dead.
How about the elimination of pitches inside and above the shoulders? Seriously, I'm still asking, does someone really need to actually be maimed (again!) or actually killed (again!) before some action is taken?A decrease in ??? what?
You insist that there is something a machine cannot do. If you will tell me precisely what it is that a machine cannot do, then I can always make a machine which will do just that! -J. von Neumann
Registered User
Dude, get over it. How bout the point that you want to penalize someone for an accidental pitch that goes 1.5' up and in, but not 3 feet low and away?? Its not consistent or fair. Its also not necessary. The current rules, if enforces and if head direction throws were taken serious are enough. Accidents do happen. It's not a comparable situation.
E=I*R
pfft
You insist that there is something a machine cannot do. If you will tell me precisely what it is that a machine cannot do, then I can always make a machine which will do just that! -J. von Neumann
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One time a batter threw his bat during his swing at it hit a fan. This is an outrage!!! I go to games and I could be killed. What is major league baseball going to about this? Do we have to wait until someone is killed?
At least two people have died at Shea Stadium this year falling off escalators. I demand that every escalator at major league baseball stadiums be cordoned off until major league baseball can find a way for these montster to be safely operated.
How many batting coaches have to suffer severe injuries before giant cages are set up around the coaching boxes.
Chen-Meng Wang tore up his ankle running the bases. When will these 18th century rules be updated? Do we have to wait for another freak accident?
Yes, there is a danger of being injured when someone is throwing a ball 90mph in your general direction. I don't see that players are actually being injured because of high and tight pitches. You can't protect against every what-if in the world.
I agree. Throwing at someone's head should have serious consequences. But punishing pitchers in the way you are suggesting is not, IMO, the answer
E=I*R
he'd be diciplined. It's happened.One time a batter threw his bat during his swing at it hit a fan. This is an outrage!!! I go to games and I could be killed. What is major league baseball going to about this? Do we have to wait until someone is killed?
And you don't think that the Mets, the escalator manufacturer, the construction firm who installed it, MLB itself, and those who maintain the escalators (if different from the team) aren't doing something about it? If you really believe that nothing is being done then you're in denial.At least two people have died at Shea Stadium this year falling off escalators. I demand that every escalator at major league baseball stadiums be cordoned off until major league baseball can find a way for these montster to be safely operated.
Totally different. They take the risks knowingly, just as batters take a legitimate risk every time they step to the plate. It's not worth worrying about hit betters in general, or anything else really. Hitting batters in the head though is a completely different story. If you really think that this isn't something that pitchers can control... I don't know what to say. Offering up the argument that it punishes pure "accidents" is really weak, and not at all comparable to coaches or fans being hit by errant bats or whatever.How many batting coaches have to suffer severe injuries before giant cages are set up around the coaching boxes.
Even still, there's quite the controversy about Maple bats that's been going on this year. There's plenty of attention being paid to incidents that really are pure accidents, yet when it comes to something that's actually controllable there's... nothing!
You've actually got proponents on your side for this argument. Not only proponents, but insiders to the baseball world!Chen-Meng Wang tore up his ankle running the bases. When will these 18th century rules be updated? Do we have to wait for another freak accident?
Regardless, see above.
How many times have both others and myself said that we're specifically talking about head hunting, not hitting batters in general? Am I speaking Greek or something?Yes, there is a danger of being injured when someone is throwing a ball 90mph in your general direction.
How about this then. Offer up an alternative solution.I agree. Throwing at someone's head should have serious consequences. But punishing pitchers in the way you are suggesting is not, IMO, the answer
You insist that there is something a machine cannot do. If you will tell me precisely what it is that a machine cannot do, then I can always make a machine which will do just that! -J. von Neumann
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If you take away the inside pitch for fear of a pitcher being ejected from a game because a pitch was deemed "too close" this is a major disadvantage to pitchers.
I would like to see some statistics that pitchers are throwing "at batters' heads" more before any action is taken. Baseball has survived 120+ years without having any "too close" rule and there have been minimal injuries so I don't see why now is suddenly so different. Some players will be hit, some in the head. If it is becoming more frequent then I agree aggressive steps should be taken to stop it. If it is not more frequent then let it be.
Use technology. Make a better batting helmet that provides more protection.
No DH. If Joba has to stand in vs Beckett reason would say he wouldn't throw at Youk.
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