Head Hunting....

[ohms_law]

I believe it is 60. Accidents happen, don't get me wrong. But just as Yuke has to stand in there worried Joba may come high and in, Joba SHOULD have to be worried that if he makes another mistake it could be a significant penalty. 50 games certainly is, but is not too extreme if its ruled blatant headhunting. Tough if not impossible to prove, but it should be subjective.

I agree. Honestly, I don't think it matters much whether or not it's "intentional" anyway. The NHL has dealt with this years ago, saying that stick fouls are punishable without regard to intent. I think baseball should start doing the same when it comes to headhunting.

As much as I like some of the things Selig has done, this is typical Selig. Totally REACTIVE. MLB will do nothing until, as I stated in the initial post, someone is taken off a major league field in a stretcher or worst.

Agreed.

[HoustonGM]

First time positive test for steroids is a 50 day suspension.

[Arctic Blast]

This really is becoming bothersome, to say the least, and I agree, it's happening a little too frequently in a short span to be purely 'incidental'. Either baseball starts dealing out some hard justice, or one of these times, that pitcher is going to get beaten to a bloody pulp when the batter's teammate gets out there first and takes him apart.

Of course, Bud n' the Gang will simply then lament the fact that things were 'taken too far by both sides'.

[m4rk6]

I agree. Honestly, I don't think it matters much whether or not it's "intentional" anyway. The NHL has dealt with this years ago, saying that stick fouls are punishable without regard to intent. I think baseball should start doing the same when it comes to headhunting.

So on days when it's cold or extremely hot or humid, you practically forbid pitchers to throw high and inside?

With those conditions, a pitcher's control isn't exactly at its greatest, if he slips and makes a mistake and uncorks a wild pitch near the batters head, he immediately gets punished?

Don't get me wrong, I hate batters getting hit because, more often than not, they always go after the stars of the team. And if a great player gets injured, his team could rack up losses fast.

And why the sudden attention on Joba? Where were these posts when Pedro Martinez was headhunting?

[Arctic Blast]

So on days when it's cold or extremely hot or humid, you practically forbid pitchers to throw high and inside?

With those conditions, a pitcher's control isn't exactly at its greatest, if he slips and makes a mistake and uncorks a wild pitch near the batters head, he immediately gets punished?

Don't get me wrong, I hate batters getting hit because, more often than not, they always go after the stars of the team. And if a great player gets injured, his team could rack up losses fast.

And why the sudden attention on Joba? Where were these posts when Pedro Martinez was headhunting?

There's a difference, though, between a genuine lack of control, and a situation where, according to 'the code', the pitcher needs to hit the batter, so he plugs him...and he plugs him above the shoulders. We've all seen it happen.

[m4rk6]

Yeah, but some posters were advocating punishment regardless of intent. Accidents will happen, how do you know if its intentional or not?

[Arctic Blast]

Yeah, but some posters were advocating punishment regardless of intent. Accidents will happen, how do you know if its intentional or not?

One poster made reference to hockey (finally) taking a zero tolerance stance towards stick fouls, because guys were getting carved left, right and center, not to mention all the holding. It was ridiculous, and such a drastic action was regardless.

You know, maybe it's time for it to happen in baseball, too. And, you mention sometimes it's control issues...well, maybe if you're struggling THAT badly with your control, you shouldn't be pitching in the majors. I mean, if your control is so weak that you're endangering the health of opposing batters (and I think we all agree that a 90+ mph heater does do that), perhaps you could use some more seasoning down in AAA.

[m4rk6]

Nice selective reading. I can think of several factors that are outside the pitcher's control that can affect his control. I'm sure if you try you can come up with a few as well.

[HoustonGM]

You know, maybe it's time for it to happen in baseball, too. And, you mention sometimes it's control issues...well, maybe if you're struggling THAT badly with your control, you shouldn't be pitching in the majors. I mean, if your control is so weak that you're endangering the health of opposing batters (and I think we all agree that a 90+ mph heater does do that), perhaps you could use some more seasoning down in AAA.

Every pitcher in the majors hits batters from time to time. It happens. Pitches go errant, pitchers have bad days, etc. Hitting a batter is not necessarily a sign that the pitcher needs more seasoning...obviously.

A zero tolerance policy on hit batters would NOT work. It'd result in players being punished for things that they did not intentionally do, that every single pitcher in the history of the game has done because throwing a baseball isn't exactly an easy thing to do.

[m4rk6]

I think it comes down to the managers. I know I used to hate it when Torre wouldn't retaliate. I don't have the numbers, but Jeter and ARod always top the list of most hit batters every year, and Torre wouldn't let his bullpen hit back.

[HoustonGM]

I think it comes down to the managers. I know I used to hate it when Torre wouldn't retaliate. I don't have the numbers, but Jeter and ARod always top the list of most hit batters every year, and Torre wouldn't let his bullpen hit back.

Good for Joe Torre.

Not only is intentionally throwing at players dangerous and wrong, it's also a stupid baseball decision because it's intentionally giving the opposing team a baserunner.

[dickay]

So on days when it's cold or extremely hot or humid, you practically forbid pitchers to throw high and inside?

With those conditions, a pitcher's control isn't exactly at its greatest, if he slips and makes a mistake and uncorks a wild pitch near the batters head, he immediately gets punished?

Don't get me wrong, I hate batters getting hit because, more often than not, they always go after the stars of the team. And if a great player gets injured, his team could rack up losses fast.

And why the sudden attention on Joba? Where were these posts when Pedro Martinez was headhunting?

I don't know of any Red Sox fan who was happy with Pedro throwing up and in at a batters head. As I said earlier, I don't have a problem with hitting a batter, I have a problem with the unquestionable throwing at the noggin. If an MLB committee reviewed these incidents and made a decision that it was intentional, although its subjective there should be a significant penalty before someone loses his career (Conigliari) or life.

As I said accidents will happen. I am not for an immediate penalty for a head hit or an up and in pitch. But when a guy has impecable control and loses one to a player he coincidentally has alot of history with, thats another story. Or when a pitcher follows an inning which one of his players was hit, and suddenly a player on the opposition is hit in the head...what i'm saying is each case needs to be looked at individually.

So...if I understand correctly Mr. Yankee fan, because you don't recall any posts about Pedro headhunting, you are OK with Joba doing it???? Sounds like a homer call to me.

[m4rk6]

*shrug*
I don't read anything in my posts that say I advocate headhunting in any way or form, but if that's how you interpreted it, nothing I can do about it.

Seems funny that the topic is brought up now, but I'm used to the whining.

[dickay]

*shrug*
I don't read anything in my posts that say I advocate headhunting in any way or form, but if that's how you interpreted it, nothing I can do about it.

Seems funny that the topic is brought up now, but I'm used to the whining.

were you around when Pedro was beaning heads? I certainly remember threads about it. I used the same logic you used when I sarcastically posted that you don't have a problem with Joba doing it. Because you don't remember threads about it, your post insinuated we didn't have a problem with Pedro doing it.

[m4rk6]

Right, see, you could just as easily picked Hansen throwing at ARod. Joba and Hansen threw in the same general location. ARod stood up, Youk ducked. Had ARod ducked, it would have hit him in the head.