Pirates Trade Nady, Marte

[koolzach1]

I'd much rather be in an UFC match

[RickD]

I'd rather watch the Yanks beat the Red Sox....oh wait they just did that 2 games in a row......well tomorrow is another day....for the Yanks to win!

[koolzach1]

I'd rather watch the Yanks beat the Red Sox....oh wait they just did that 2 games in a row......well tomorrow is another day....for the Yanks to win!

No doubt!

[HoustonGM]

Ok, I'll play your game.

David Ortiz = average. Hitting .252, .352, .481.
Josh Beckett = average. 9-7, 3.83 ERA.
Jason Varitek = well below average. Hitting .215, .297, .351.
Jacoby Ellsbury = below average. Hitting .259, .327, .355.

You're citing their current year statistics and calling them average, while he's citing their career statistics and saying despite their great years, they're average players. No, you're not playing his game. You'd be playing his game if he was saying Xavier Nady is equivalent to Vlad Guerrreo.

But guess what? Ever since he left that huge pitchers part over in Petco, he has been a .292 hitter with above average power.

OPS+ for Nady in each year of his career, starting in 2003 but not including 2004 where he only played 34 games. 92-104-102-107-142. He's a slightly above average hitter. For a corner outfielder, that's below average.

As for the Yankees bullpen, it's been very good, but not the best, and I wouldn't bet on it being better than it was in the first half over the rest of the year.


Anyway, are Nady and Marte upgrades? Do they help increase the chances that the Yankees make the playoffs? Yes. Nobody has said otherwise. All that's been said is that they picked up a couple solid, but not spectacular players. What exactly is the argument? Who here actually thinks Nady is a 142 OPS+ hitter? Who here thinks Marte is anything better than a solid reliever?

[dickay]

Well, it boosted our playoff chances from very good to great, IMO. We already had a TOP bullpen, and not it is likely the BEST in baseball. Plus, we balanced our lineup, so this is a GREAT move.

Gotta find this funny. End of May when talk of Chamberlain becoming a starter went full bore ALL the Yankee fans were crying, "who will bridge us to Mariano, our bullpen stinks waaaaaaahhhhhh!!!!!" Now granted they've played well since Joba became a starter but all of a sudden the Yank fans are now trying to sell them as the best pen in the league ("Top")????????? Are you kidding me??? Thats why people hate Yankee fans, arrogance and ignorance. They'd played well of late......Marte is a nice pickup......but to have full confidence and say its the best pen 2 months after crying about it is ignorant any way you slice it.

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

Who here actually thinks Nady is a 142 OPS+ hitter? Who here thinks Marte is anything better than a solid reliever?

Apparently koolzach does .

[metsguy234]

All I have to say here

[dickay]

Apparently koolzach does .

I'm also curious why they even need Nady with the 'great' Lou Brock'esk' Brett Gardner on the squad?

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

I'm also curious why they even need Nady with the 'great' Lou Brock'esk' Brett Gardner on the squad?

Yeah. The same one thats "slightly faster than Ellsbury" .

[koolzach1]

Gotta find this funny. End of May when talk of Chamberlain becoming a starter went full bore ALL the Yankee fans were crying, "who will bridge us to Mariano, our bullpen stinks waaaaaaahhhhhh!!!!!" Now granted they've played well since Joba became a starter but all of a sudden the Yank fans are now trying to sell them as the best pen in the league ("Top")????????? Are you kidding me??? Thats why people hate Yankee fans, arrogance and ignorance. They'd played well of late......Marte is a nice pickup......but to have full confidence and say its the best pen 2 months after crying about it is ignorant any way you slice it.

Umm... WAY better than the **** bullpen that the Red Sox put out there. Look at our bullpen's statistics, and then tell me who the ignorant one is. Sheesh.

[HoustonGM]

Umm... WAY better than the **** bullpen that the Red Sox put out there. Look at our bullpen's statistics, and then tell me who the ignorant one is. Sheesh.

He does have a point though. Many Yankee fans (I don't recall if you were one of them, or if there ever were any on these boards) were crying that moving Joba to the rotation would result in a disaster for the bullpen. Now, the young guys in their bullpen have surpassed expectations, and the fans are playing up how great the bullpen is, even though just two months ago they were crying that a Joba-less bullpen would be a wreck of epic proportions.

I also don't really know what this nonsense is about the Red Sox having a bad bullpen. Really, the only difference between the two pens is that Mariano Rivera has been much better than Jonathan Papelbon. Other than that, the bullpens are very similar.

David Aardsma, Hideki Okajima, and Javier Lopez have all been very good. Their ERA+'s respectively are 159, 166, and 161. Outside of Rivera and Chamberlain, the Yankees have two relievers at least as high as any of those. Dan Giese has an ERA+ of 159 and Edwar Ramirez is at 173. Giese has thrown just 24.1 innings though, so far.

Outside of those 3 relievers and Papelbon, the Red Sox have gotten average (98 ERA+) pitching from Manny Delcarmen, and poor pitching from Craig Hansen (74 ERA+) and Mike Timlin (77 ERA+), and then a couple innings from other randoms. For the Yankees, Jose Veras (140 ERA+) and Kyle Farnsworth (124 ERA+) have both been good, while Ohlendorf (63 ERA+) and Hawkins (72 ERA+) both sucked. An assortment of other relievers have been good in limited innings. All in all, the Yankees bullpen, apart from the closers, has been better than the Red Sox, but not by much. Going forward, I see more of the same. The Yankees have a better bullpen, but the Red Sox have a solid one, not a "****" one.

[Arctic Blast]

So, witnessing such 'discussions' as these, am I the only one hoping the Yanks and Red Sox find a way to collectively lose every single game they play the rest of the year? God, would that be sweet.

[immetoo]

David Aardsma, Hideki Okajima, and Javier Lopez have all been very good. Their ERA+'s respectively are 159, 166, and 161.

I don't know what factors ERA+ takes into account, but anyone who watched Okajima pitch for most of this year knows that he hasn't been "very good". He hasn't allowed many earned runs, but he had allowed 12 of 17 inherited runners to score as of July 22 (according to http://soxanddawgs.com/?p=5073), which is God-awful. Does ERA+ factor that in?

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

Umm... WAY better than the **** bullpen that the Red Sox put out there. Look at our bullpen's statistics, and then tell me who the ignorant one is. Sheesh.

Ignorant:

–adjective
1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.
2. lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact: ignorant of quantum physics.
3. uninformed; unaware.
4. due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement.

Everyone else has used some stats with some actual substance, not saying "hes a .292 hitter since leaving Petco" (especially considering he barely played when he was with the Padres), and have given well-informed, well thought out, backed up points.

You tell me who the ignorant one is, especially considering the fact that HoustonGM, and others, have disproved basically every "point" you've brought up .

EDIT: I know Nady had a season or two in San Diego where he played over 100 games, but even in those seasons I don't think he got much more than 300-350 AB's. He never really got a fair shake in San Diego. I also like how Nady is hitless in 7 AB's since joining the Yank's and he was supposedly the "missing piece". Hey, if you can use one AB to back of Marte, I can certainly use 7 for Nady.

[Pavelb1]

So, witnessing such 'discussions' as these, am I the only one hoping the Yanks and Red Sox find a way to collectively lose every single game they play the rest of the year? God, would that be sweet.

I don't blame you. I'm a Sox fan and this whole season has left me with a sour stomach.....there have been a few exciting comebacks though.