Pirates Trade Nady, Marte

[koolzach1]

In no way does that mean they're equals. Any scout will tell you that Kennedy projects as nothing more than a solid back-end rotation pitcher, a #4 or a #5, and any scout would tell you that Buchholz projects as a front of the rotation starter. Kennedy isn't even on the same planet as Buck, in terms of potential.

But I refuse to get further involved in another Red Sox - Yankees prospects debate, or any other debate, with incredibly biased fans. I am VERY fair to the Yankees and the trades they make and the way I see their prospects and whatever else, if you can't exercise the same courtesy for my team when trying to have an intelligent debate I just won't get involved.

Dude I never said that I freaking agree with the Rockies. I never said they were equals. Did you not see my smiley with the tongue sticking out? I was hoping that'd let you know that I didn't agree, and was just kidding around when I said "apparently, Kennedy and Buchholz are equals."

As for you being "fair" to the Yanks... Ha.

[gRYFYN1]

I guess the real question is just how good is Nady?

his 330/383/535 is way over his career 281/337/456 numbers.

Last year was the 1st time he ever had 450+ ABs and him numbers tumbled in the 2nd half going 255/303/425 after the All-star break.

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

As for you being "fair" to the Yanks... Ha.

Please, point out to me where I'm not.

I've given them plenty of credit for this deal, and always have. Its a good deal for them, they got a couple solid Major Leaguers without giving up anything of immediate value.

If you think I'm not being fair because I called Nady and Marte average to slightly better than average players, which they are, then you have a misconstrued view of fairness.

Nady is a career .281/.336/.456 hitter who happens to be having a very good season and he'll probably regress closer to his career numbers over the second half of the season especially as he adjusts to the AL, mostly on the shoulders of a very strong July. Nady isn't the type of player that will make a team demonstrably better.

And as for Marte, he was great last season, but this season hes been average. Hes sporting a 3.47 ERA this season, I'd hardly call that anything better than average. And hes actually been worse against lefties this season, given hes faced fewer of them, than he has against righties, so if you think hes your answer to David Ortiz or the other great lefty hitters in the AL, you're wrong.

If you think these two are the "missing pieces" then thats a statement in itself. Whatever happened to getting Mark Teixeira and C.C. Sabathia as the missing pieces, lower your standards a tad?

I do not like the Yankees, but mostly I do not like the media surrounding them and the disillusioned, biased portion of their fan-base. I may not like them, but I do respect them and I give them credit when they deserve it, and I also rip them when they deserve it. I'm pretty sure just about anyone thats seen what I've had to say about the Yankees would agree with me that more often than not I'm very fair to them.

[koolzach1]

Please, point out to me where I'm not.

I've given them plenty of credit for this deal, and always have. Its a good deal for them, they got a couple solid Major Leaguers without giving up anything of immediate value.

If you think I'm not being fair because I called Nady and Marte average to slightly better than average players, which they are, then you have a misconstrued view of fairness.

Nady is a career .281/.336/.456 hitter who happens to be having a very good season and he'll probably regress closer to his career numbers over the second half of the season especially as he adjusts to the AL, mostly on the shoulders of a very strong July. Nady isn't the type of player that will make a team demonstrably better.

And as for Marte, he was great last season, but this season hes been average. Hes sporting a 3.47 ERA this season, I'd hardly call that anything better than average. And hes actually been worse against lefties this season, given hes faced fewer of them, than he has against righties, so if you think hes your answer to David Ortiz or the other great lefty hitters in the AL, you're wrong.

If you think these two are the "missing pieces" then thats a statement in itself. Whatever happened to getting Mark Teixeira and C.C. Sabathia as the missing pieces, lower your standards a tad?

I do not like the Yankees, but mostly I do not like the media surrounding them and the disillusioned, biased portion of their fan-base. I may not like them, but I do respect them and I give them credit when they deserve it, and I also rip them when they deserve it. I'm pretty sure just about anyone thats seen what I've had to say about the Yankees would agree with me that more often than not I'm very fair to them.

Ok, I'll play your game.

David Ortiz = average. Hitting .252, .352, .481.
Josh Beckett = average. 9-7, 3.83 ERA.
Jason Varitek = well below average. Hitting .215, .297, .351.
Jacoby Ellsbury = below average. Hitting .259, .327, .355.

Now, do I really believe this? Lord no... Ortiz, and Beckett are very good players. Ellsbury will develop into a stud leadoff hitter. Varitek on the otherhand... I am spot on.

Marte has a mid 3 ERA this season. That is above average, but considering his track record, he is a good bullpen piece. X-Nad is hitting .330, but has no track record. But guess what? Ever since he left that huge pitchers part over in Petco, he has been a .292 hitter with above average power. He is also ranked 2nd in assists for a RF'er, top 3 (I think) in Range Factor, and Zone Rating for a RF'er.

[dannymac910]

I think Marte just proved he's pretty good...

[koolzach1]

Please, point out to me where I'm not.

I've given them plenty of credit for this deal, and always have. Its a good deal for them, they got a couple solid Major Leaguers without giving up anything of immediate value.

If you think I'm not being fair because I called Nady and Marte average to slightly better than average players, which they are, then you have a misconstrued view of fairness.

Nady is a career .281/.336/.456 hitter who happens to be having a very good season and he'll probably regress closer to his career numbers over the second half of the season especially as he adjusts to the AL, mostly on the shoulders of a very strong July. Nady isn't the type of player that will make a team demonstrably better.

And as for Marte, he was great last season, but this season hes been average. Hes sporting a 3.47 ERA this season, I'd hardly call that anything better than average. And hes actually been worse against lefties this season, given hes faced fewer of them, than he has against righties, so if you think hes your answer to David Ortiz or the other great lefty hitters in the AL, you're wrong.

If you think these two are the "missing pieces" then thats a statement in itself. Whatever happened to getting Mark Teixeira and C.C. Sabathia as the missing pieces, lower your standards a tad?

I do not like the Yankees, but mostly I do not like the media surrounding them and the disillusioned, biased portion of their fan-base. I may not like them, but I do respect them and I give them credit when they deserve it, and I also rip them when they deserve it. I'm pretty sure just about anyone thats seen what I've had to say about the Yankees would agree with me that more often than not I'm very fair to them.

Oh really????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

Ok, I'll play your game.

David Ortiz = average. Hitting .252, .352, .481.
Josh Beckett = average. 9-7, 3.83 ERA.
Jason Varitek = well below average. Hitting .215, .297, .351.
Jacoby Ellsbury = below average. Hitting .259, .327, .355.

Now, do I really believe this? Lord no... Ortiz, and Beckett are very good players. Ellsbury will develop into a stud leadoff hitter. Varitek on the otherhand... I am spot on.

Marte has a mid 3 ERA this season. That is above average, but considering his track record, he is a good bullpen piece. X-Nad is hitting .330, but has no track record. But guess what? Ever since he left that huge pitchers part over in Petco, he has been a .292 hitter with above average power. He is also ranked 2nd in assists for a RF'er, top 3 (I think) in Range Factor, and Zone Rating for a RF'er.

Um, ok?

A mid-3.00 ERA for a RP is pretty average. In fact, I'd be willing to bet hes right around the league average ERA for relievers. I never said he wasn't a good bullpen piece, I've been saying that he is all along, but hes no better than slightly better than average.

He may be hitting .330, but he is not a .330 hitter. Not to mention the fact that he is a historically poor post-ASB hitter, as gRYFYN1 pointed out. And over the past three years you know what his batting average is against right handers? .258, with a total line of .258/.337/.406 against righties. Hes a solid hitter, but hes not the type thats going to put a team on his back and carry them to the promised land.

I never discredited this move by the Yankees. Not once did I do that. I accurately and fairly evaluated the players they received.

[koolzach1]

Um, ok?

A mid-3.00 ERA for a RP is pretty average. In fact, I'd be willing to bet hes right around the league average ERA for relievers. I never said he wasn't a good bullpen piece, I've been saying that he is all along, but hes no better than slightly better than average.

He may be hitting .330, but he is not a .330 hitter. Not to mention the fact that he is a historically poor post-ASB hitter, as gRYFYN1 pointed out. And over the past three years you know what his batting average is against right handers? .258, with a total line of .258/.337/.406 against righties. Hes a solid hitter, but hes not the type thats going to put a team on his back and carry them to the promised land.

I never discredited this move by the Yankees. Not once did I do that. I accurately and fairly evaluated the players they received.

The Yankees have mostly lefties in their lineup... well, pretty much ALL lefties. So adding Nady made all the sense in the world. We got him to balance the lineup and hit lefties, not to hit righties.

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

Oh really????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Ok, one at-bat. And? Lets see what he does the rest of the season, shall we?

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

The Yankees have mostly lefties in their lineup... well, pretty much ALL lefties. So adding Nady made all the sense in the world. We got him to balance the lineup and hit lefties, not to hit righties.

Ok, thats all well and good. But hes still gonna face more righties than lefties.

As I've said 100 times in this thread, I think its a good move by the Yank's, but it doesn't vastly improve their playoff chances and the players aren't much better than average, and theres nothing wrong with that.

[koolzach1]

Ok, one at-bat. And? Lets see what he does the rest of the season, shall we?

I've already seen what he can do.

[koolzach1]

Ok, thats all well and good. But hes still gonna face more righties than lefties.

As I've said 100 times in this thread, I think its a good move by the Yank's, but it doesn't vastly improve their playoff chances and the players aren't much better than average, and theres nothing wrong with that.

Well, it boosted our playoff chances from very good to great, IMO. We already had a TOP bullpen, and not it is likely the BEST in baseball. Plus, we balanced our lineup, so this is a GREAT move.

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

Well, it boosted our playoff chances from very good to great, IMO. We already had a TOP bullpen, and not it is likely the BEST in baseball. Plus, we balanced our lineup, so this is a GREAT move.

Yankees POFF = 38.1.

And don't you think you should do some research before making wild assumptions like saying you have the best bullpen in baseball?

Good move, not great. Nady and Marte don't cover up the losses of Posada and Matsui, and the inconsistencies of the starting rotation as a whole.

[koolzach1]

Yankees POFF = 38.1.

And don't you think you should do some research before making wild assumptions like saying you have the best bullpen in baseball?

Good move, not great. Nady and Marte don't cover up the losses of Posada and Matsui, and the inconsistencies of the starting rotation as a whole.

Look and see how many games we have lost after handing the ball to the bullpen in the 6th inning or more. 1.

[robinhoodnik]

The tape on your wrists is coming undone, both of you, back to your corners, re-tape, and we'll head into round 15 after the card girls finish their strut around the ring.