Pitch Counts too High

[Rongar]

Yep. I do think pitch counts are a tad on the high side, and for modern day games, it doesn't accurately model real life in terms of pulling pitchers, although I've basically just brushed it off as I don't think pitch counts are tied to injury.

I believe that high pitch-counts -in PBP- favour the hitter...when I'm hitting in the PBP menu, I pitch in the "Player" mode to keep the p-c down, and my starters usually get a "Quality Start", (3 earned runs, or fewer) having gone at least five innings without exceeding their p.c.

Then during my team's ups, I revert to "manager" mode, 'cos I've discovered that it accelerates the opposing pitcher's p-c something diabolical, so that - together with the AI's laxity in changing pitchers - late-inning rallies are quite commonplace by my boys (a study of the Canajun Ehs box-scores will confirm this)

Another interesting study is that of one's sortable stats...when assessing the
worth of a pitcher, compare the number of pitches thrown with his E.R.A....
I predict that the greater the former, the higher the latter

[cartman00000001]

OK...I did a quick tweak. I simmed 1 week, I think he got 2 starts. Check out that last start. 142 pitches in 3 innings?? I know he gave up a lot of runs and hits, but NO WAY does a pitcher do that. I also have a picture of the tweak I did.

[knicks0929]

Power pitchers have always seemed to have had this problem in Mogul. HGM is right though, in that it's more or less a cosmetic issue. Not completely, but mostly.

How is it simply cosmetic? If pitch counts affect in-game fatigue (as I believe HGM confirmed for me that they do) then power pitchers are relegated to fewer innings/game. This puts them at a massive disadvantage. In reality, being a power pitcher does not necessarily mean high pitch counts. I read a THT study a year or so ago that showed that more strikeouts does not correlate to more pitches (although more walks does).

[HoustonGM]

Well, that's certainly all true.

They don't affect injury rates though, as far as I know. If they did, I'd be making a huge stink about the high pitch counts.

[SirKodiak]

How is it simply cosmetic? If pitch counts affect in-game fatigue (as I believe HGM confirmed for me that they do) then power pitchers are relegated to fewer innings/game. This puts them at a massive disadvantage. In reality, being a power pitcher does not necessarily mean high pitch counts. I read a THT study a year or so ago that showed that more strikeouts does not correlate to more pitches (although more walks does).

Is this the article? If so, the author is saying that if BABIP remains constant, a change in a pitcher's K-rate changes the number of BIP, and thus the number of pitches per PA remain basically the same.

This, from the article, is still true:

the average walk takes 5.5 pitches, the average strikeout is done in 4.8 pitches, and all other plate appearances average around 3.3

[MeetDaMets]

Well, that's certainly all true.

They don't affect injury rates though, as far as I know. If they did, I'd be making a huge stink about the high pitch counts.

Somewhere,
I'd swear Ohms has written that
if
pitch count > 150% x endurance
then
injury potential is increased.

pretty sure that was speaking to v 10.31 though.


Having now seen op's setting,
i cant help but concur with
wtf ??

[knicks0929]

Is this the article? If so, the author is saying that if BABIP remains constant, a change in a pitcher's K-rate changes the number of BIP, and thus the number of pitches per PA remain basically the same.

Well, he's saying that, but he's also saying:

Basically, what we’re seeing is that striking out fewer batters has absolutely no effect on pitch counts

Then, on top of that, what you said comes into play. Fewer strikeouts increases the number of balls in play, and thus increases hits and home runs, which in turn increase the pitch count.

[MeetDaMets]

http://forum.sportsmogul.com/showthr...974#post543974

not quite the one i was looking for but seems to indicate
ultra high pitch counts will have effect on injury rate

[knicks0929]

http://forum.sportsmogul.com/showthr...974#post543974

not quite the one i was looking for but seems to indicate
ultra high pitch counts will have effect on injury rate

I could only find one reference to this in Clay's post (or elsewhere in that thread):

There are other factors, like lefty-righty matchups, and trying to protect your pitcher's arm (the articles on 'Pitcher Abuse Points' at Baseball Prospectus have some good research here).

He sort of alludes to it, but doesn't go into detail. I'd be very interested to know how this actually works, since it makes a big difference in strategy. Is anyone capable of looking at the code or something and figuring this out? Or maybe Clay could shed some light?

[filihok]

Agreed! I think this is pretty important to know

(or maybe it's left vague, as IRL it is vague)

[knicks0929]

Agreed! I think this is pretty important to know

(or maybe it's left vague, as IRL it is vague)

Well, the magnitude and pitch count threshold of the effect is vague, but the existence of it is entirely clear.

[filihok]

Is it? I'm not even sure what THIS is.
Pitchers get tired after a certain point. That seems logical.

What I wanted to know was do elevated pitch counts lead to injury in BM. No one seems to be telling. Well, IRL, there's plenty of debate about if elevated pitch counts lead to injury.

[MeetDaMets]

I could only find one reference to this in Clay's post (or elsewhere in that thread):

the last 2 posts in that thread seems to directly address if pitchers break down as a result of high pitch count , ohms gives an affirmative reply.


dwright5
"Does a pitcher that throws 120 pitches every 5th day with an endurance rating of 85 have a bigger chance to get injured than one who throws 75 pitches per start with the same endurance and health ratings?".....

ohms
"Yes...."

[filihok]

the last 2 posts in that thread seems to directly address if pitchers break down as a result of high pitch count , ohms gives an affirmative reply.


dwright5
"Does a pitcher that throws 120 pitches every 5th day with an endurance rating of 85 have a bigger chance to get injured than one who throws 75 pitches per start with the same endurance and health ratings?".....

ohms
"Yes...."

What's unclear is if the increase in injuries is due to the cumulative effect of more pitches or because the pitcher is pitching more giving him more opportunities to be injured.

[ohms_law]

What I wanted to know was do elevated pitch counts lead to injury in BM. No one seems to be telling. Well, IRL, there's plenty of debate about if elevated pitch counts lead to injury.

On an individual level, the answer is no. I'll let Clay answer in more detail if he feels the need to do so.