Registered User
Actually he isn't right FRS. Getting on base is always more important than not getting on base. The only reason YH is doing this is because of HGM.Originally Posted by FRENCHREDSOX
Maybe nitpicking but he is right (sorry HGM) you also forgot Caught Stealing in your analysis (see Bosox-NYY yesterday for a prime example of that)
Yes HGM you have to be on base (*shakes head in disbelief*) BUT if you are caught stealing THEN you are OUT thus re-iterates the fact getting on base DOES NOT ALWAYS mean NOT getting an OUT which is what Belial said (or Yankee Hater or whoever he is) & what you admitted to (fielders' choice)
Bobby no one disagrees with that(not even Belial)--- it was the ERRED assumption that getting on base means ZERO outs...
which he goes on to contradict in the very next line
I was just pointing out the base statement was incorrect - getting on base DOES NOT necessarily mean ZERO OUTs & even when on BASE you can still be out (caught stealing) & thus the value of being on base in that case = 0
Registered User
FRS, which is better...Getting on base or striking out?
The only thing better than getting on base is hitting a homerun.
No ONE disagrees with that Bobby - heck not even YH/Belial - please read the posts,I was clarifying the fact that getting on base is not mutually exclusive from REGISTERING an out ....which is what HGM said (ie that is the defination of "by defination"
Otherwise I dont really want to get into the Belial-HGM argument,but for once HGM was clearly wrong in his WRITTEN statement & Belial was right!
Registered User
I pretty much think HGM thinks "a player has no control over what happens after he gets on base"
Banned
How about striking out, then making it to home while the opposition tosses the ball around. Just think creatively, people - sometimes it's good to exercise your brain.
But seriously, all jesting aside, base running and decisions play a major factor in actual run scoring. I'm not talking about what the sabr people factor currently, but LEADING TO RUNS IN THE ACTUAL WORLD.
Ok, 1 out runners on 2nd and 3rd, tie game bottom of the ninth. The best outcome can actually be to make an out, (oh no!) say a sac fly. and drive in the runner. A walk (not making an out as HGM says) actually hampers your chance to score. It's really difficult state 'always' in baseball and not be wrong.
Banned
It's because someone said something inaccurate. I just hate seeing sabr people and mods state completely wrong things on the forums. How can you be a mod in a baseball base forum and a sabr follower when you keep saying inaccuracies?!
(Keep in mind this was meant to be sarcastic along the lines of HGM yelling at Dusty for what he says even though it has zero bearing on how well Dusty is doing his job)
Seriously, HGM was flat wrong and it needed to be pointed out, because people listen to him.
Banned
So you nitpick every time he says anything, but you don't want to be nitpicked when you're nitpicking him? I made a tongue-twister! Seriously, it's just wanting accuracy, the same as you want out of Dusty.
Hitting into a fielders choice isn't always the fault of the hitter, either. Plus, you can get a hit (not make an out as you call it) and still get thrown out trying to stretch a hit (which I believe is making an out). I've seen base hits turn into double plays, strikeouts turn into a run - God I love baseball.
The thing is, sabr was meant to analyze baseball to figure out why the good teams succeed. You shouldn't use sabr to say why a player/manager who's succeeding shouldn't though because, it's like making a photcopy of a photocopy. Maybe it's possible there's more to run scoring than what is in the sabr formula now?
o
Yes, it does. As I said, you CAN make an out once you are on base, but the ACT OF GETTING ON BASE (in terms of OBP) means that you DID NOT make an out unless you got thrown out going for an extra base.
Most definitely not.
Who has said otherwise?
There are many new statistics that attempt to quantify baserunning and its effect on run scoring.I'm not talking about what the sabr people factor currently, but LEADING TO RUNS IN THE ACTUAL WORLD.
It's quite clear that this is not what Dusty Baker is talking about when he says he doesn't like on-base percentage.
You could have nicely pointed out that I mistakingly forgot fielder's choices (and as you later pointed out, going for an extra base and getting thrown out, which is actually the only true exception to what I've been talking about, as I've been talking about on-base percentage, in which fielder's choices are negative outcomes), instead of aggressively going after me as if I'm some lying ******* who tries to trick people into believing things. Nothing I've said has been wrong, except that I forgot to include the exception of runners getting thrown out trying to go for an extra base.
I think that when a manager routinely gives his reasoning for his actions by stating stupid and completely wrong things that it certainly has bearing on how well he's doing his job. Dusty Baker chose which players to play and which to give a day off based on a completely incorrect statistic. That has no bearing on how he's doing his job?
The simple fact of the matter is that getting on base and not making outs is good and Dusty Baker doesn't seem to understand that, as he has routinely proven with the things he's said, and he has also routinely proven that he makes decisions off of statistics that he pulls out of his ***. Yes, there are exceptions. There are exceptions to nearly everything. However, not making an out is always a good thing. Even if you could've scored a run by making an out, not making an out is still a positive outcome. Maybe not the best outcome for the situation, but still a good outcome.
Banned
Sorry for showing you up. Kinda sucks when people try to pick apart everything you say, regardless of how your performance is, doesn't it?
o
There's a huge difference between some guy on the internet who didn't mention an exception to something and a friggen manager of a professional baseball team who routinely says stupid and incorrect things.
Stop trying to "show me up". The only purpose it serves is to instigate fights.
BOOM!
This is quite possibly the most nit-picking I've ever seen in one place.
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I'm not the only one who knows the truth about Matt Ryan.
Master of Ale!
I would also have to rate it as the lamest fight of all time. I mean, come on, everyone's teeth are all still in their mouths, nobody's bleeding...good grief!
Banned
I said I was sorry. I didn't do it intentionally either. It's just sometimes you're wrong and you make excuses to why it doesn't matter that you're wrong, or how you're not really wrong.
Why does it matter if it's Dusty managing a baseball team or you moderating a sports forum? And as far as people who routinely say stupid and incorrect things - I won't go there.
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