We've come a looooong way :)

[Arctic Blast]

knicks, I agree totally with you. The different games need to remain different...everyone is looking for something a bit different. The way things are right now works well, because people can pick and choose, and find the game that works the absolute best for them.

[dolfanar]

nobody comes even close.

If you're willing to put in the time into Ootp, then BBM really doesn't come even close, PARTICULARLY for historical play. *IF* you're willing to put in the time...

[Jeff Olsen]

*IF* you're willing to put in the time...

Sounds too much like work.

[dolfanar]

Sounds too much like work.

To be honest, I've been wondering if there's that much of a gap. In terms of setup, when I start a new game of mogul I spend so much time babysitting the AI teams that it slows things down tremendously. And I don't even bother playing historical games (anything prior to 93ish) as the amount of work/editing to get Mogul to work even remotely logically is enormous.

I guess it depends on how much tolerance you have for

a) Overly-complex intefaces with far too many options
or
b) Unrealisitc, inauthentic inaccurate, illogical, inconsistent sim results (particularly for historical play)

My tolerance is pretty low for each. The sad thing is it is possible to have BOTH.

The problem with OOTP is that you have this rock solid statistically sound and deep base to work off of, but a UI that is obssessed with minutae. They would be wAY better off moving 60-70% of the game options to an external utility, OR having a OOTP light .exe and a OOTP full .exe.

Just because you've coded in L/R splits and 4 platoons and everything else into the game doesn't mean EVERYONE is going to use them.

You could easily have BBM's simple interface with most of the bells and whistles operating in the background.

The team roster section in OOTP is a good example. It takes me two or three clicks to get to my lineup screen, and if a I click on a position player it takes another couple clicks to get his batting stats, and if I want to see his MLB totals that's another click. That's 5-6 clicks to do the same thing I could do in 2 in BBM.

Ofcourse the player himself (particularly in Historical games) is considerably more likely to behave and perform true to life, especially if he isn't on my team.

And there is the kicker, in OOTP it may be a HUGE pain in the *** to run my own team, but atleast I don't have to worry as much about running every OTHER team!

The ideal game for me would be to have a BBM like interface for running my own team, but OOTP intelligence in creating the league and running the competition teams. People keep telling me that the console games are now able to provide this (plus give you a graphical treat), but I am skeptical (everytime I play those kinds of games I see things like Edgar renteria hitting 50HRs or something).

[Jeff Olsen]

To be honest, I've been wondering if there's that much of a gap. In terms of setup, when I start a new game of mogul I spend so much time babysitting the AI teams that it slows things down tremendously. And I don't even bother playing historical games (anything prior to 93ish) as the amount of work/editing to get Mogul to work even remotely logically is enormous.

And there is the kicker, in OOTP it may be a HUGE pain in the *** to run my own team, but atleast I don't have to worry as much about running every OTHER team!

Some of us hardly pay any attention to what the other teams are doing. Most I've ever done with the AI is force the A's to move out of Oakland after spending a decade in the cellar.

[knicks0929]

Some of us hardly pay any attention to what the other teams are doing. Most I've ever done with the AI is force the A's to move out of Oakland after spending a decade in the cellar.

Yeah, I don't touch the AI, mostly, and my games run quite smoothly. Only thing I ever really do is to hand some of the big market teams a hunk of cash at the beginning of a new game (to counter the immediate effects of equalizing cities).

[dolfanar]

Some of us hardly pay any attention to what the other teams are doing. Most I've ever done with the AI is force the A's to move out of Oakland after spending a decade in the cellar.

And right there I believe is the differance between those of us who are frustrated, and those that are generally content.

I used to be able to do this for BBM... just ignore everyone around me and worry only about my team. The problem is after a while I started 140+ wins per year and 11 straight world championships... with Montreal, with equalize cities off on Manager mode. Then I looked around, saw what was going on, and it's been all down hill since

[knicks0929]

And right there I believe is the differance between those of us who are frustrated, and those that are generally content.

I used to be able to do this for BBM... just ignore everyone around me and worry only about my team. The problem is after a while I started 140+ wins per year and 11 straight world championships... with Montreal, with equalize cities off on Manager mode. Then I looked around, saw what was going on, and it's been all down hill since

Maybe you should try playing on Mogul mode. Also, hiding peak ratings levels the playing field further.

[boomboom]

Maybe you should try playing on Mogul mode. Also, hiding peak ratings levels the playing field further.

lol, mogul mode is the only way to go.

[Jeff Olsen]

I used to be able to do this for BBM... just ignore everyone around me and worry only about my team. The problem is after a while I started 140+ wins per year and 11 straight world championships... with Montreal, with equalize cities off on Manager mode. Then I looked around, saw what was going on, and it's been all down hill since

Whereas I'm lucky to make the playoffs in any given season as a large market team with equalize cities off...in Fan mode.

[boomboom]

Whereas I'm lucky to make the playoffs in any given season as a large market team with equalize cities off...in Fan mode.

Do you need a manual Jeff?

[Rongar]

Do you need a manual Jeff?

Nah...Jeff just needs to pitch in PBP "Player" mode, and switch to "Manager" mode, when hitting...that's how a poor team like our Canajun Ehs just made the playoffs...

[RedsoxRockies]

IDK, steriods may have helped...

[Jeff Olsen]

Nah...Jeff just needs to pitch in PBP "Player" mode, and switch to "Manager" mode, when hitting...that's how a poor team like our Canajun Ehs just made the playoffs...

I'm perfectly happy with my .607 winning percentage, 7 pennants, and 3 rings over nearly two decades (BBM 2K8).

[Big Mikey]

BBM is and in all liklihood will forever be game you buy if you plan on being in an online league. They AI can't do sh**. It can't even look after its own team. At least console games can do that. Sure you can still rip off the AI in a trade but at leats it can bounce back. In BBM you can not onlyrip them off but you will also see them sit in the league basement forever if they are a small market team. I shouldn't be expected to through any complicated process of tweaking or looking after AI teams to get enjoyment out of a game. That takes the whole point of it. To me the point is to have fun running YOUR team not everyone else's. I might as well finanly give give a new console baseball game a shot (haven't since MVP 05 that was a great game), since this game is headed no where. If the AI can't look after its team yet after 10 years of coding then I don't think it ever will unless Clay brings in some new faces to his team and re-hauls his game engine.