We've come a looooong way :)

[Jeff Olsen]

You don't know what the player wants for his contract, so you kindof guess what they want. 9times out of 10, you can't sign them...or you give them a huge contract.

Exactly. What really ticks me off is having to go through the guessing game for players who want to extend their contract with me, then lose them because they won't give me any idea of what they want to be paid! That is not realistic and there is no way I'll play OOTP again until it's fixed, if only for those who come to me for an extension. Given Markus's attitude toward finances, I'm not holding my breath.

[ohms_law]

A serious game should not have a guessing game in lieu of contract negotiation.

You don't know what the player wants for his contract, so you kindof guess what they want. 9times out of 10, you can't sign them...or you give them a huge contract.

Exactly. What really ticks me off is having to go through the guessing game for players who want to extend their contract with me, then lose them because they won't give me any idea of what they want to be paid! That is not realistic and there is no way I'll play OOTP again until it's fixed, if only for those who come to me for an extension. Given Markus's attitude toward finances, I'm not holding my breath.

Yea, I just figured this out. I was really hoping that it was changed in version 9, but it's not. This is an absolute game stopper for me. All you can really do, as a human player at least, is play through one season.
Really, the game isn't bad at all. There are several things that I would love to see implemented in Mogul (although, probably not in quite the same manner). It's definitely a sold game... right up until it comes time to sign or resign players.

PS.: there's also no refunds for OOTP. Talk about buyer beware...

[robinhoodnik]

To answer the question, I've generally liked the game and hte board for many years.

I'm just tired of the way you treat your users, and trying to defend a game which has major problems year after year.

I've finally cashed in my interest and figure other games deserve more time.

I've never seen such a set of defensive moderators in my life. All I have tried to say is that we've all reported thousands of bugs, small and large. Clay wants to fix the small, but ignores most of the large issues.

Getting aggresively defensive to someone who disagrees with the premise of the thread is a way to pull users away.

Would you rather have apathetic users who buy it once, get frustated with the issues, and give up, or someone who has bought it year after year in hopes of it becoming better and posting issues that are problems?

The best thing for this game would be to get new moderators and realize that we are here to help, not to hinder.

However, the fact remains--I wasted my money this year.

Not all moderators are as you describe.

[jcbarr]

"All" can never be summed up with one descriptiong. At least not when that "all" is comprised by many singular human beings. I stopped letting generalized comments like that get under my skin years ago

[Rongar]

Adam. it's not only moderators who pipe up positively for this game-
- many of us GUPs (Great Unwashed Players***), oft sing its praises, too, you know - haven't you read our many enthusiastic posts, burbling of its delights?.

You seem to be trying to suggest that more people despair of the game, than love it - I have the opposite impression

***(Unwashed, 'cos we're too busy playing BM!)

[Jeff Olsen]

I was really hoping that it was changed in version 9, but it's not.

Until there's something in the official OOTP correspondence about contract negotiations being changed, I'm going to assume it hasn't and stay away.

[Arctic Blast]

Well, signing a guy to an extension, he DOES give you sort of his base contract demand, and you work from there.

[boomboom]

Free Agency that doesn't work that way....

[Arctic Blast]

To some extent, I agree...although in most cases, an agent will give a team a starting number.

And let's face it...this is one of the weak areas for BM, too. Seems silly to call the way one of these games unrealistic, while ignoring the fact the other one doesn't do it right, either.

[21C]

Exactly. What really ticks me off is having to go through the guessing game for players who want to extend their contract with me, then lose them because they won't give me any idea of what they want to be paid! That is not realistic and there is no way I'll play OOTP again until it's fixed, if only for those who come to me for an extension. Given Markus's attitude toward finances, I'm not holding my breath.

I'm assuming you are talking of an older version of OOTP because that is certainly not the case now. When you select Sign Player, you will be given an amount that the player wants to sign for and the length of contract wanted. You then have the option of selecting Meet Demand or you are free to choose your own offer. This applies to signing FAs as well as resigning players.

Also when you resign a player, the new contract takes effect the following season rather than straight away like it always has in Mogul - which is certainly not realistic.

BTW I hear Mogul still uses points instead of dollars.
You may remember when this was a common misconception of Mogul long after it was changed.

[ohms_law]

Yea but, there's no feedback at all. With the negotiation system in Mogul, every time that you make an offer you get some sort of feedback about the offer you've made. With OOTP, it seems as though the player says "here's what I want, take it or leave it".

I have yet to be able to sign any players unless I use Meet Demands.

[21C]

I'm not sure if you have this disabled or not but players will often reply to offers. It is not always an immediate reply but may take several sim days - sometimes sooner if the offer is very good. While Mogul gives you immediate feedback, OOTP will take a couple of days to allow for other teams to make offers in free agency.

If I make an offer, the player will respond with "That is just the sort of offer I was looking for" and then later with "That is the best offer. I will sign for your team". If they don't like it then they will tell you as much or they will tell you that another team has offered more.

You can enable or disable these messages under your Manager Options.

[Arctic Blast]

As long as I'm not being a complete dick about my counteroffer, I've been fairly successful with signing guys to numbers other than what they're demanding. Sometimes, an extra year, but at a lower per year salary, does it...or, if it's a guy I REALLY want to sign.extend, I'll give him a player option.

[Jeff Olsen]

I'm assuming you are talking of an older version of OOTP because that is certainly not the case now. When you select Sign Player, you will be given an amount that the player wants to sign for and the length of contract wanted. You then have the option of selecting Meet Demand or you are free to choose your own offer. This applies to signing FAs as well as resigning players.

That's certainly an improvement. Last time I played was 6 and never saw a thing about negotiations being changed.

Seems silly to call the way one of these games unrealistic, while ignoring the fact the other one doesn't do it right, either.

Not when the guys behind one game says it's "[t]he complete package results in the best historical career baseball simulation on the market, nobody comes even close."

[knicks0929]

I've been playing since BM07, and I must say, I'm quite happy with the game. It provides a relatively realistic simulation with a very accessible interface. After all, isn't that what it's supposed to do? Those comparing it to OOTP should understand that, while OOTP is more in-depth and perhaps a more realistic simulation, BM is designed to be more towards the opposite end of the spectrum: easily playable and a little-less indepth.

Does the game have issues that are a bit of a nuisance? Sure:

The free agent signing system needs a complete update.

Player development could use some improvement.

The competitive balance does get out of whack, even with equalized cities.

Offensive levels are distorted, I suppose, though I don't play historical and it's fairly easily remedied in modern games.


The only one of those that really bothers me is the free agent signing system, because that has been an issue for a long time and has constantly been bandied about. Still, I've never heard any mention of improving it. That alone would go a long way towards improving the game.


PS: As for the mods, I've found them exceptionally helpfully, albeit a bit defensive at times.