We've come a looooong way :)

[dolfanar]

Personalities -- Broken
Arbitrations -- Broken
Histrorical Rookies -- Broken
All-Time Leaders -- Working!
PBP -- Never Use It
Depth Chart -- Broken
Encyclopedia -- Last I checked Wroking
Active Forum -- Not sure what you mean
Ticker -- Useless
Player Development -- Broken
Bigger Scouting Reports -- Often inaccurate

Just to name a few. Like the thread title says, we've come a long way; that doesn't mean "perfect"

7 broken features, 3 working features (2 of which I personally never use, and would happily do without).

.300 may be great in baseball, but for a success rate in a game like this, it sucks.

Adam, I know EXACTLY how you feel, especially with regards to the embarassing behavior by the "moderation team" at times.

Ohms, do Clay a favor and go away for a while... you are NOT helping.

[RickD]

I bought BM03,BM05, BM07 and BM08! The game is massively improved. Yes there are kinks, no it's not perfect however if someone thinks they have all the answers and knows how to improve the game then maybe they should develop one from scratch, write their own code, make it perfect and market it to others. Let me know how that works for you.

[boomboom]

Ohms does help a lot. And this game has come along ways in the past few years. The reason I posted the way I did is becasue even in 2k3 old forums, Adam was very negative.(those forums got deleted?) It gets old after awhile... he lamblasted this thread and game and has been doing it for years. I am just tired of it. Period.

I understand this game is far from perfect. I remember when adam was complaining like crazy we had points instead of dollars. We had no splits like ootp....so on. Well we have those now, and BM was the first game to implement the Lahman database, Pure Sim followed then finally in December OOTP8 introduced it. BM is a great game and countinues to be. If you don't think it is, why do you keep on buying it? It just gets old. So if you want your money back and don't think it was worth $25 dollars...then e-mail Clay. If you want your money back because of the moderation team...so be it.

[RickD]

Here Here....

[Arctic Blast]

I really don't quite understand the criticisms of the forum moderators. This place is actually very open to letting people post criticism of their products, which A LOT of other small developers absolutely get rid of with an iron fist. I HAVE seen some people jump all over criticisms, but, for the most part, they don't tend to be the regulars around here, they're the 'once a year' types who popped up when 2k9 first released. Now, maybe there's stuff going on behind the scenes that I'm simply not aware of, but, on the face of it, the criticism of the mods puzzles me.

I DO like seeing a frank discussion of the game, though. That's where improvements are going to come from...people bringing up shortcomings.

[Clay Dreslough]

They are from 2000, but there is a City Mod which you can change them.

We use U.S. Census data -- the only free data that I'm aware of that includes as many cities as we'd like to include in the game. So it's not that this data is "outdated" -- it's that the most recent data that exists is from 2000. The U.S. does a new Census every 10 years. After 2010, we can update the census data.

Clay

[Clay Dreslough]

Adam -- I agree with some of what you said (like the contract AI still has holes that can be exploited).

And I disagree with some of what you said. For example, the use of Fictional Rookies in Historical Sims. When I play Mogul, it's important to me that there is enough talent in the league for game balance to be maintained. If you play in a year like 2005 without fictional rookies, that's a serious problem. So, "Fictional Rookies" are on by default, but can be turned off. This is a design decision, not something that is "broken". I realize there are parts of the game that frustrate you, but you lose credibility when you take something that can be toggled with a checkbox and call is "obviously broken".

However, the fact remains--I wasted my money this year.

And this is the one thing that I have to disagree with more strongly than anything else you said. We have a 100% refund policy. OOTP doesn't have that. EA doesn't have that. I've honestly never found a merchant of any kind that has that. So you've never wasted your money. I processed your refund request as soon as I received it. I do spend most of my time programming and testing, so don't expect me to read my e-mail the second it comes in.

I do think it's silly for Ohm's to tell you to go away. I wish there was a way to differentiate between "Ohm's the Moderator" and "Ohm's the Mogul player", because moderators shouldn't be telling people to go away.

[Clay Dreslough]

7 broken features, 3 working features (2 of which I personally never use, and would happily do without).

This isn't the bugs forum, but it would be great if you could elaborate on all the ways in which the listed features are broken. If so many things are broken, why isn't there a long list of 5-star bugs in the bugs forum? When I make patches and new versions, the first (and last) thing I do is check the bugs forum. For 11.18, the most serious unfixed bug I could find was:

• "Walk-off wild pitch", batter up completes at bat

That is certainly a bug, and I plan to fix it soon. But it's fairly uncommon and it doesn't affect the outcome of the game. It's not the kind of bug that makes me think that 70% of the game is "broken".

Anyway, I'm not trying to start an argument. I sense that you truly feel the game is "mostly broken" and I would love your help to point me to past bug reports, or just flesh out the problems you've reported, so that I can get to work on fixing the problems.

The #1 reason that Ohm's is a moderator is because he does a great job of organizing bug reports for me. Without a QA staff, that kind of help saves me a lot of time. I've worked on projects where we've had 15 full-time people dedicated to finding, documenting and prioritizing bugs. At Sports Mogul, we have zero. So I really do need your help pointing me in the right direction.

The downside is that everyone assumes that everything posted by Ohm's is "officially sanctioned". It's not. Ohm's does very valuable work, for free, and needs to be a moderator in order to do it. But just because I flip a switch that lets him help organize threads, that doesn't mean that I agree with everything he says.

[AndrewOsborn]

I HAVE seen some people jump all over criticisms, but, for the most part, they don't tend to be the regulars around here, they're the 'once a year' types who popped up when 2k9 first released.

McBunty....cough, cough.

[Clay Dreslough]

OK. This is about to be my fourth post in a row. This thread has pissed off a lot of people, and the only reason why is because some of the participants happen to be moderators.

Seriously, go back and re-read this thread, pretening that Ohm's and BoomBoom aren't mods. You'll find that the thread is somewhat heated: that it contains both Mogul critics and Mogul 'fanboys'. But you probably won't draw the conclusion that this thread had gotten out of control -- or that it reflected badly on the small company that happens to pay the bills to run the computers that host this forum.

I don't know what else to say.

To everyone: Please realize that 20% of what the mods say is in their duties to keep threads organized, ban spammers and try to keep things civil. The other 80% is just them being board members -- just like everyone else. They start arguments, post pad, and what not. I wish they wouldn't, but that's what happens when you have mods that also have strong feelings about Mogul.

To the modders: Please realize that extra attention is being given to what you say. If you need to say something that a modder shouldn't say (like telling someone to go away) I would strongly recommend that you create a 2nd forum account and use that name instead.

[dolfanar]

This isn't the bugs forum, but it would be great if you could elaborate on all the ways in which the listed features are broken. If so many things are broken, why isn't there a long list of 5-star bugs in the bugs forum? When I make patches and new versions, the first (and last) thing I do is check the bugs forum. For 11.18, the most serious unfixed bug I could find was:

Clay, whenever anyone posts a bug report for ANY of those issues it gets moved to the "suggestions" forum, because it's an "AI issue not a bug". I'm not interested in playing the BBM shell game. I gave up that dead end road LONG ago. Sorry.

You want a very succinct report on what's wrong with BBM?

Here:
http://pc.ign.com/articles/873/873848p1.html

This is a good place to start. Once those issues are looked at I'll be happy to resurrect some of my old threads that got BURIED long ago.

[dolfanar]

Here is another:

http://forum.sportsmogul.com/showthread.php?t=174080

I long since gave up and play with equalize cites, but there you are. Fix this, and you are doing something.

[dolfanar]

And another

http://forum.sportsmogul.com/showthread.php?t=149647

Realisitc stats in a stats based Baseball game... what a concept.

Cripes and that's tjust off the first couple pages of the suggestions forum. If you haven't gotten the hint yet.. start digging, because more then a few posters have poured the minds and time into giving you hints on how to make your game better. Even if you disagree with their solutions, the fact they are suggesting means they are disatisfied with what is there now.

[adam]

Dolfanar's hit the point I'm trying to make.

We can argue about minor fixes, but the problem is the AI.

Many of us have spent over $100 over the years in the game, waiting for the AI to get more accurate.

What do we have?

A game that has stagnated over minor debates while major problems remain unfixed.

My point Clay, about historical/fictional rookies is this. You don't have a switchover in 2004 or 2005. If I want to play the 98 Devil Rays, I shouldn't have to click advanced options to turn off fictional rookies. An historical expansion team with fictional rookies? It doesn't make sense.

City data could be extrapolated from other sources. Better yet, there could be historical cities put in. (but that's not a bug, it's a feature request)

To answer the question about something from 5 years ago, the stadiums are off when you start a new game. The data got extrapolated. I reported it five versions ago, when I fixed it in my own spreadsheet.

It's still broken.

If a game can't get stadiums (capacities right in 2008, what kind of quality reputation does this have?

Now that I think about it, the last time I checked in BM2009--Washington still plays in RFK.

But superficial bugs are things that can be fixed in five minutes. We've pointed out hundreds over the years.

They are still there.

[rockiesfan4ever]

My point Clay, about historical/fictional rookies is this. You don't have a switchover in 2004 or 2005. If I want to play the 98 Devil Rays, I shouldn't have to click advanced options to turn off fictional rookies. An historical expansion team with fictional rookies? It doesn't make sense.

That has been fixed. You just start a new game and click Expansion. Then you load the 1998 Tampa Bay Devil Rays (As they were called then) and all the players on the D-Rays are right and historical