We've come a looooong way :)

[boomboom]

honestly, i do.

bugs that screamed at me 5 years ago are still there. basic bugs, that most people would see in the beginning.

Which bugs from 5 years ago?

The financial model is still broken--the cities date from 1998, and I'm not sure how they work in the historical sense.

They are from 2000, but there is a City Mod which you can change them.

There are numerous major problems with player development.

I agree, but there is more user control over it now. If you play with Default settings. I see that it really doesn't work. But if you change some settings the developments works fine.

Common sense things that seem obvious are broken early--for example, if you're playing a historical expansion team, and you don't know to check it, it automatically assumes you want fictional rookies.

This isn't a broken feature, but more of a simple request. It was designed this way.

The leagues play nowhere close to the historical leagues--a 4-5 era for the league during the dead ball?

Historical Play does need work on it, but it has come along way since it was first introduced.

Rosters set for today's game (although not really) versus how they worked back then?

Back then they used .dat files, now they use the .mog files which holds a lot more information. Also some updated rosters come with the game now. Take a look at FRS rosters or HGM rosters. They came with a patch.

Missing strategies? Half-arsed arcade things rather than getting the stuff right?

What strategies need work? The current Startegies work just fine for simulation.

Contracts are still way off compared to real life and easy to manipulate to your advantage.

Yes and no, HGM rosters are current, but going into the future, you can change using the simulation settings (league editor in previous verisons)

I'm tired of reading that we should change fourteen things (could we at least save a profile?) and make up a whole list of ground rules of our own to run a sim.

Profile is a great idea, and I agree about ground rules, you shouldn't have to do this. But even with OOTP, you need ground rules.

I could go on, but I won't bother. This is a game produced by a talented amateur. It isn't in the league of OOTP, FM 2008, etc.

I think that after playing OOTP, you want mogul to be the exact same thing. And it isn't If you go to operations sports (FOF website) you can find a good review about BM2k9.

Does it have some advantages? Sure. The main one is that you can sim in an hour and not play a game for weeks. Frankly, the errors are so galling that I don't want to play a long dynasty on it.

I don't think we play the same version of Baseball Mogul, cause it is a totally different game then you have been describing over the past 5 years.

[adam]

If I'm paying hundreds of dollars over the years, I don't want to hear about next year, next year, next year.

Nor do I want to install new rosters, change every setting, research cities (do I need to change that for the era I'm in), and after doing all of this getting a game which is nothing close to realistic?

I think there are places for both games. I like the speed of BM, as well as the fun part of the overall picture. It's also easier to use.

I could go back 4 or 5 years and find 50 bugs from then that are still in the game, or features which would improve the realism.

The overall point is this--this is still a game with many amateurish errors and every year, the game engine is still flawed. If you think the game engine is flawless, we are NOT playing the same version of Baseball Mogul.

Perhaps I should just email Clay, ask for my money back, and take this site off of my bookmarks. I've invested many hours into finding bugs (oh, that's another thing, the way the board is run is downright tyrannical when it comes to moving bug reports, etc), attempting to document what is off, and I see a game which is not much more accurate than shooting an arrow blindfolded.

--adam

[ohms_law]

Perhaps I should just email Clay, ask for my money back, and take this site off of my bookmarks.

Seriously, I think you should. You've provided support since 2001 in the form of purchasing the product, so you're obviously a happy customer. The largest complement that you can give any company is to be a return customer. Since you're actually unhappy with the product though, you're actually hurting both yourself and the product.

[adam]

done. I've emailed Clay asking for a refund.

The attitude of the moderation team here drove away someone who obviously cared about the product.

I've provided support since 1998 or so--ten years is enough to wait for a game that willl never get better.

Thank you to the moderators for your lack of support, egotistical defensive reactions, and bashing people who dare disagree with the product!

[ohms_law]

Your welcome.

[AndrewOsborn]

If I'm paying hundreds of dollars over the years, I don't want to hear about next year, next year, next year.

I partially concur here. But most of the time, people who use this complaint are focusing on the things that haven't happened and don't bother to focus on the things that HAVE happened for the better. Sure there are things that haven't been addressed; no game is perfect and Mogul is far from it I'll admit, but what about;

Personalities
Arbitrations
Histrorical Rookies
All-Time Leaders
PBP
Depth Chart
Encyclopedia
Active Forum
Ticker
Player Development
Bigger Scouting Reports

Just to name a few. Like the thread title says, we've come a long way; that doesn't mean "perfect"

[Reade]

I've emailed Clay asking for a refund

This is one thing that really grips me.

You go to a movie and don't like it, do you get your money back

You go to a restaurant and get a bad meal, do you get your money back

You buy a plane ticket and the plane is 5 hours late, do you get your money back

You go to the doctor and he doesn't fix whats wrong, do you get your money back

Has anyone heard of the phrase Buyer beware!

[Redsauce]

Couldn't agree with Adam more.

[ohms_law]

This is one thing that really grips me.

You go to a movie and don't like it, do you get your money back

You go to a restaurant and get a bad meal, do you get your money back

You buy a plane ticket and the plane is 5 hours late, do you get your money back

You go to the doctor and he doesn't fix whats wrong, do you get your money back

Has anyone heard of the phrase Buyer beware!

Couldn't agree with Adam more.

Personally, I tend to agree with both of these statements. There are definitely things that I think can, and should, be improved with Mogul. That being said, if those things that are most important to you are not improved to your satisfaction... what are you doing here?

You can be against me, I'm fine with that. You can not like me or anyone else here, some of the methodology used around here, or whatever. What do you expect any individual here to do, go cry in the corner because you don't like it? If you genuinely don't like Baseball Mogul though, then the question remains: "What are you doing here?"

[boomboom]

Your welcome.

Your welcome Adam. Have a nice day.

[boomboom]

That being said, if those things that are most important to you are not improved to your satisfaction... what are you doing here?

"What are you doing here?"

agree.

[CatKnight]

I think this thread's taken a negative turn. A 'put up' or 'shut up' attitude won't do much for the game or players.

That said and out of the way, of course there are things wrong with the game. Glaring, obvious problems.

However, first given the choice I'd PREFER Clay to move cautiously. Why? I like the game. I do not agree some of the features the majority wants (such as 40 man rosters) are necessary or a good idea. Maybe some day I'll turn around, but right now it's not a priority for me. Further, can I compensate for the majority of the problems I'm having? Sure, you can argue I shouldn't have to... but I *can.* I like that. Usually in games it's "here's what we have. If you don't like it, Sorry." The ability to somewhat customize your settings really helps.

Second, the title of this thread was "We've come a long way." We HAVE. I didn't jump in until 10.17, and I've already seen improvements in stuff I care about. I've gone back and downloaded 05, 06 and 07.

05 had tolerable competitive balance, but it was easy for the league to get out of control, the AI had no sense of budgetting, there were no historical rookies and no AA/A/R levels so fictionals overwhelmed your league pretty fast, and so on and so forth.

06 was (to me) an early effort with a lot of new changes that just didn't go well.

07 IS a great game, and I'd have to concur that not much seems to have changed on a sim level since then...but the AI is better at budgetting now. It usually avoids bankruptcy. I can't speak much as to fictional player development, but the career development paths seem to be better.

Early 08 made me grimace, but by 10.31 things were starting to move nicely. I could've been happy there if there were no more updates.

I feel that way about 11.10. (Didn't get to try 11.17 before the computer's fonts blew up on me.) As I proved (to myself) in 'Ballfield Blitz' I don't need to babysit the game nearly as much now as I have in the past. That means I can sit back and focus on the parts of the game I care about.

Is BM perfect? Of course not. Perfection does not exist on this side of the fence, and anyway what might be 'perfect' to me might be a game breaker for someone else, and vice versa. There comes a point where you need to decide "this works for me" and leave it at that.

Or, that you simply can't wait anymore and need to try elsewhere...

[adam]

To answer the question, I've generally liked the game and hte board for many years.

I'm just tired of the way you treat your users, and trying to defend a game which has major problems year after year.

I've finally cashed in my interest and figure other games deserve more time.

I've never seen such a set of defensive moderators in my life. All I have tried to say is that we've all reported thousands of bugs, small and large. Clay wants to fix the small, but ignores most of the large issues.

Getting aggresively defensive to someone who disagrees with the premise of the thread is a way to pull users away.

Would you rather have apathetic users who buy it once, get frustated with the issues, and give up, or someone who has bought it year after year in hopes of it becoming better and posting issues that are problems?

The best thing for this game would be to get new moderators and realize that we are here to help, not to hinder.

However, the fact remains--I wasted my money this year.

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

Seriously, you started all this. Someone(s) were simply commenting on how much the game has improved over the past several years, never making any mention of it being perfect or anything close, and you come in basically calling everyone idiots. I don't think theres a single person on this board who thinks that this game is anywhere close to perfect, but I'll take the realism, simplicity and fun of BBM over the complexity of OOTP, the lack of realism in a console game, and the boredom of online baseball sims that I've seen.

[LongGone]

I first started playing BM with the 2002 version and loved it and then moved to the 03 version when it came out and liked it just as much. Then unfortunately moved away from PC games for a while and have just re-discovered BM and bought BM2K9 without a second thought. Man, I am impressed and agree with the thread title...it has come along way! But it still retains all the things that made it my baseball game of choice in the first place ,the ease of play yet realism combining to make it fun which is all that matters to me in the end. Great job and I look forward to the next version of this great game.

Thanks,

Tony.