Right, I'm just saying, it's not limited to DH's at all, though.Originally Posted by rogue9
o
Right, I'm just saying, it's not limited to DH's at all, though.
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well obviously, I wouldn't say something like that. Just the names from Giants (the team I pay the most attention to) teams (Bonds excluded) that were associated with peds tells you that.
Certifiable
In fact, an AWFUL lot of them have been pitchers. The last I heard, a MAJORITY of those penalized for PED's since testing began has been pitchers.What's with all the talk about DH's being roid-monsters?
Of all the player's caught for steroids, I think none of them were regular DH's.
The RULES of the game didn't change much for almost 100 years. Yeah, deadball era versus modern day stats don't match, but they still fielded nine players, played nine innings, three outs to an inning, and three strikes for a K. I realize that 4 balls meaning a walk wasn't always a rule, but it was for most of baseball's history. As was nine players against nine players.
How do you know?? It sounds to me like Hank Steinbrenner might. And most of us old enough to remember the beginning of the DH recall how MANY, MANY of us considered THAT extreme. Once we're all ok with that, who's to say the other half of the battery doesn't deserve a DH as well. Groom your pitchers and cathers to just get batters out, and we'll hit for em. Like I said, you down this road, it might be fun, it might be popular, but it ain't baseball.
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Too true.
Banned
My stance too. Why stop at pitchers and catchers? Let's have a designated defense, some designated hitters, and designated runners. You may think I'm stretching here, but the original proposal was to have a dh and a designated runner. Look it up.
o
As somebody else originally posted, the game wasn't originally 9 innings, it was originally first to 22 runs, games would go on for a long time, stop and be restarted the next day if it went into dark.
I don't consider a DH changing the "rules" of the game. It's still nine players on the field, nine innings, 3 outs an inning, 3 strikes, 4 balls, etc. It's not fundamentally changing any rules.
It sounds to me that Hank Steinbrenner wants to use a DH all the time, which isn't taking it to any extreme. However, it really sounds to me like Hank is just a whiner who'll ***** about anything that doesn't go his way.How do you know?? It sounds to me like Hank Steinbrenner might.
I don't think you have to worry about it ever going down that road. I've NEVER heard ANYBODY advocate anything more than a DH for the pitcher.And most of us old enough to remember the beginning of the DH recall how MANY, MANY of us considered THAT extreme. Once we're all ok with that, who's to say the other half of the battery doesn't deserve a DH as well. Groom your pitchers and cathers to just get batters out, and we'll hit for em. Like I said, you down this road, it might be fun, it might be popular, but it ain't baseball.
But anyway, we have two leagues, one with the DH, one without, what's the big deal? The game is still baseball. People that like the DH can watch it. People that don't can watch without it. Everybody's satisfied except professional whiners like Hank Steinbrenner.
Certifiable
Well, I may not be a professional whiner, but I'm pretty darned good at it. I would have to at least be rated semi-pro. And I'm not satisfied. To me it really does give the AL an advantage in any interleague contest, including the World Series.
o
How? Most AL teams don't even have a good regular DH, and most NL teams have a bench player comparable to the average DH.
There's AL teams that are hurt when having to not use the DH, like the Red Sox, for example, when they have everyone healthy. There's NL teams that benefit when they can use the DH, by putting a poor-fielding good hitter at the DH spot and a better fielder on the field. How are the Phillies disadvantaged by getting to use Ryan Howard as a DH and inserting a better fielder like Greg Dobbs at first?
There's AL teams that are disadvantaged when playing without the DH. There's NL teams that benefit when they get to use the DH.
I don't think either league has the advantage in interleague play or the World Series. Yes, the AL has been better in interleague play lately, by a longshot, but that does not mean that they have an advantage because of the DH, it just means that they've had better teams, and that much is obvious just by examining the teams in both leagues.
Certifiable
No, it doesn't mean it yet. I would never presume to prove my theory on still a relatively small sample size. But here's the thing.
An AL GM KNOWS he's gonna have a DH, day in and day out. And he also knows that every other AL team he's competing with is gonna have one. So, in order to compete, AL teams are both willing and compelled to sign one more quality bat on the roster. Plus, they still have to have a good PH or two, not to mention replacements. In the NL, they rarely use the DH, and are therefore not compelled to build their roster the same way.
I don't know about you, but I've even done this myself in BM. I've built/planned my team differently based on whether there was a DH or not. And though I still consider the sample size to small to say definitivly (especially World Series'), I really do think in a game against two teams built differently (one built for the DH and one not), it's an advantage for the AL.
Think of it this way. Let's suppose Barry Bonds had zero baggage. The guy can still perform offensively, but not so good defensively. Now, I'm betting NO NL team would pay the required dollars for that level of a pinch hitter, while plenty of AL teams would because they get there money's worth. So, in an interleague game, the AL team has a Barry Bonds hitting DH, and the NL team has a cheaper alternative. Almost always.
o
Everything you said is true, but I don't think it gives the AL, as a whole, an advantage in the interleague games. Some AL teams are hurt when they can't use their DH, as they have to put that player in the field, hurting their defense, and benching another good player. Some NL teams benefit when they can use a DH, as they get to use a poor fielder in the DH slot and improve their defense. Since each team plays games both with and without the DH, it evens out.
Are there specific teams that may be at an advantage in interleague games? Yes. The Red Sox have an advantage in games with the DH, but they're disadvantaged in the games without the DH. The Phillies are an NL team that benefits from using the DH. But I don't think any blanket statement can be applied.
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Every GM, NL and AL, knows at some point he will have to play by the others rules. Especially if you are a team thinking about winning a World Series, you better factor that in when putting your team together, even so far as way back in the winter.
Now, obvisouly a NL team isn't going to spend $10 mils on a Barry B*nds type to sit on the bench most of the season, but there's someone on the bench that can swing a bat.
Similarly, an AL team, better have the pitchers take a few rounds of batting practice, and base running, every now and then, because it IS going to come up at some point.
If Steinbrenner isn't man enough to realize injuries happen and wants to blame someone for his pitcher not being able to run without hurting himself, he needs to blame his coaching staff.
Wah wah, my pitcher had to run the bases, and he got hurt. And...what...if Johnny Damon got hurt doing the same he'd demand that every ballpark in the majors cushion the basepaths with soft foam when the Yankees come to town?
Maybe put some padded turnbuckles on the corners ala WWE?
And really, does the DH help the Royals all that much?
For a lead role in a cage
Hank knows his history!"Am I (mad) about it? Yes," Steinbrenner added. "I've got my pitchers running the bases, and one of them gets hurt. He's going to be out. I don't like that, and it's about time they address it. That was a rule from the 1800s."It is a long-standing tradition for New York baseball teams to complain about their pitchers running the bases:
http://www.retrosheet.org/earlycrt.htm
From William J. Ryczek, Blackguards and Red Stockings ... 1871-1875 (1992), page 18, who points out that the substitute runner was selected by the opposing captain:
"Some pitchers, prima donnas even before the advent of the designated hitter, felt they deserved a courtesy runner on all occasions. An 1874 Hartford (Dark Blue)-(New York) Mutual game was delayed while the opposing captains debated whether pitcher (Bobby) Mathews should be allowed relief on the base paths. The Mutuals at first refused to play if the courtesy runner was not allowed, but relented and took the field nonetheless."
Ryczek cites Hartford Courant 4 Sep 1874 and Clipper 12 Sep 1874.
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In the end it comes down to this fact: The YANKEES are the greatest team ever.
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