Hank Steinbrenner is the biggest...uh...kitty...I've ever seen

[filihok]

Obviously MLB has done it right.

A lot of people adamantly love the DH.

A lot of people vehemently oppose the DH.

So, we get one of each. And the only way we can reconcile it when the two leagues play each other is we have to play by both leagues' rules.

Which, referring to the originial post, means Steinbrenner should have kept his mouth shut because MLB is already doing the right thing.

[HoustonGM]

Which I've basically said multiple times in this thread.

[dickay]

The pitcher IS a fielder. That's the entire crux of this argument.

agreed....and my argument is that the pitcher is more invaluable and prone to injury than anyone else on the field. You quoted that yourself. They use their arms and legs more than anyone on the field and are REQUIRED to spend the vast majority of their time honing a craft that has nothing to do with batting and running.

Every other position allows for ample time to bat & run, and does not require them to work specific muscles aimed to throw a baseball with consistent precision and movement at great speeds. Its an art and a science, and despite being a fielder it makes sense to protect that commodity since it is much more prone to injury doing things other than what they train for.

As a paying fan I expect to see the best talent on the field. I accept when they get hurt during the course of the game. I don't however feel that the pitcher should be put at the same risk as other fielders because they are much more prone to the injury as a pure result of the system they are placed in. I feel having someone bat & run for that pitcher is a fair trade off to ensure the best pitching talent is on the 'field' as much as humanly possible.

Thats where we disagree, and there's no getting past that apparently. I cling to the FACT that American League teams CAN hit a pitcher but choose not to. They choose to protect their commodity. It only makes sense.

If Beckett pulled a muscle swinging a bat, or broke an ankle rounding the bases I'm pretty sure many arguing the opposite would have a different story. Thats the most disturbing part of this argument. I'm not saying those arguing in here would change there opinion, but I know for certain many arguing in general would.

[dickay]

Obviously MLB has done it right.

A lot of people adamantly love the DH.

A lot of people vehemently oppose the DH.

So, we get one of each. And the only way we can reconcile it when the two leagues play each other is we have to play by both leagues' rules.

Which, referring to the originial post, means Steinbrenner should have kept his mouth shut because MLB is already doing the right thing.

I agree with the initial part of this, but I see no reason why Steinbrennar can't b!tch. Maybe in time he can get enough support to change the rules, maybe he can't.......but if nobody ever complained nothing would ever change with anything. As much as I hate Steinbrennar and the Yankees, all i've stated is that I agree with his concerns.

[filihok]

I agree. No National League teams choose to bat the pitcher in a DH game. It would be foolish too. The DH absolutely protects the pitcher, who is the most important player in any game.

But he's a player in the game. And as a player in the game, he should field and bat. The league should do whatever they can to protect him from getting injured playing in the game. There's a big maple bat controversy going on right now. The bats are dangerous to fielders and fans. Something probably needed to be done on that yesterday. But, I-me, don't think that having your players not play is the answer. There is risk in playing the sport. L.A. has 60% of the rotation on the DL right now. And it sucks. But if you're a baseball player, you play baseball.

That's how I feel. I respect (more than I thought I would) some of the arguments of the DHers, but they don't change my mind.

[OldFatGuy]

Every other position allows for ample time to bat & run, and does not require them to work specific muscles aimed to throw a baseball with consistent precision and movement at great speeds. Its an art and a science, and despite being a fielder it makes sense to protect that commodity since it is much more prone to injury doing things other than what they train for.

I think catcher's would take issue with this, as there crouching and throwing requires a great deal of stress to specific muscles, and they are also involved in every play. And I don't know that any catcher that ever played the game game didn't have plenty of injuries. They're like the walking wounded. Thus, taken to its next logical step, we'll have DH's for catchers. Something I posited about previously.

And then, why stop there? Why NOT an offensive and defensive just like football. After all, years ago, football only had 11 players, and they played both ways.

EDIT: And, as I posted before. This may be efficient, and it may even end up being popular, but it just ain't baseball.

[HoustonGM]

And it's never going to happen, nor has anybody at all seriously suggested it, so I don't see the point in continually bringing it up.

[filihok]

Who's to say it's never going to happen?

I bet if you asked some of the real old timers they would find it ludicris that pitchers wouldn't have to bat for themselves.

[dickay]

I think catcher's would take issue with this, as there crouching and throwing requires a great deal of stress to specific muscles, and they are also involved in every play. And I don't know that any catcher that ever played the game game didn't have plenty of injuries. They're like the walking wounded. Thus, taken to its next logical step, we'll have DH's for catchers. Something I posited about previously.

And then, why stop there? Why NOT an offensive and defensive just like football. After all, years ago, football only had 11 players, and they played both ways.

EDIT: And, as I posted before. This may be efficient, and it may even end up being popular, but it just ain't baseball.

This was actually covered earlier. I see where your going, and as a former high school catcher myself am sympathetic. Catchers take a beating no doubt, but also are expected to and readily practice the offensive side of their game. They may also in fact be a RARER commodity than pitchers which is an interesting debatable point and attack on my position that you left out.

However, there has to be a balance with everything. As mentioned they do train muscles and practice specifically towards hitting and running bases. The environment and culture developed with the inclusion of the DH years in the AL ago rendors it easy to leave it at just pitchers. Going to extremes as you discuss is something nobody is talking about and common sense would reign supreme should those arguments every arise which I think we all agree never would anyhow.

Now one could say, dickay.....easy answer. Teams could just mandate that pitchers begin training to hit & run the bases. That comes at a sacrifice however of their efforts to hone their craft which is something so very few can do consistently. It also subjects them to even more possibility for injury.....and something which has already been linked, pitchers are already at a very high succeptability level for injury.

[HoustonGM]

When somebody even remotely seriously suggests anything even remotely like these extreme situations, get back to me.

Pitchers are clearly different from other position players, even catchers. I have no facts on this, but I'd say that pitchers need to spend a lot more time on training their pitching than position players do their fielding.

[dickay]

I agree. No National League teams choose to bat the pitcher in a DH game. It would be foolish too. The DH absolutely protects the pitcher, who is the most important player in any game.

But he's a player in the game. And as a player in the game, he should field and bat. The league should do whatever they can to protect him from getting injured playing in the game. There's a big maple bat controversy going on right now. The bats are dangerous to fielders and fans. Something probably needed to be done on that yesterday. But, I-me, don't think that having your players not play is the answer. There is risk in playing the sport. L.A. has 60% of the rotation on the DL right now. And it sucks. But if you're a baseball player, you play baseball.

That's how I feel. I respect (more than I thought I would) some of the arguments of the DHers, but they don't change my mind.

Fair enough. I'm of the opinion that I don't mind this 'slight' compromise to protect those pitchers. Those are the things MLB needs to debate as a whole. I do expect that should Steinbrennar b!tch enough, and should a few other owners come on board (god forbid another start pitcher get hurt again running or swinging) this will come to a vote and may in fact see the DH go to the NL. Thats what my crystal ball says.

[JayC]

I see no reason why Steinbrennar can't b!tch.

The reason is simple. His last name is Steinbrenner. If anyone else had said it he'd just be a person expressing an opinion, but to some people a Steinbrenner -- and to some, anyone associated with the Yankees -- will always be in the wrong.

[dickay]

Who's to say it's never going to happen?

I bet if you asked some of the real old timers they would find it ludicris that pitchers wouldn't have to bat for themselves.

real old timers would find alot of todays game lucidris, but we find alot of their game ludicris as well. Theres a time & place for everything. Slavery was seen as noble at one time in the worlds darker past.

[dickay]

The reason is simple. His last name is Steinbrenner. If anyone else had said it he'd just be a person expressing an opinion, but to some people a Steinbrenner -- and to some, anyone associated with the Yankees -- will always be in the wrong.

That may be true. I think it has more to do with him being owner of the most valuable franchise in the game than the fact he's unpopular. The Yankee owner will always have reporters ready and willing to take a statement.

But, should Jake Peavy, Johan Santana, Brandon Webb, Josh Beckett, Joe Blanton, Mark Buerlhe, Scott Sheilds, or any other top of the rotation pitcher get hurt swining a bat or running the bases, I suspect you'll hear more of this and they will to get a big pedastal to stand on. The players union is all for it, and it protect assets. Its a big business now. I actually think the DH will go NL in the next decade.

[HoustonGM]

Scot Shields? lol