2009 Yankees wishlist

[HoustonGM]

Sabathia is no prize. I know he's pitching better now, but he blew up in the playoffs last year

3 games...

and prior to last year he was OK at best and inconsistent/awful at worse.

Prior to last year, he had 4 average years (2001, 2002, 2004, 2005), a solid year (2003), and a great year (2006). In other words, a very valuable pitcher, and is just now hitting the usual peak years.

Plus he's known to pack on a pound or two.....I know darn well he's approaching an age where that catches up with you.

Right, like I said. He's not a good risk for a long-term deal.

I'm on the record......he will be a major bust during his next contract. God forbid he stay healthy this year because someone (probably the yanks) will pay 20 mil or so for the next 6 years plus and be burned big time. So stat god.......

Cut it out with the snarky "stat" nonsense. Read my last statement:

I wouldn't give 6-7 years to him, as he's a hefty dude, so there's an inherent health risk in that, I think, but Sabathia is FAR FAR FAR from Barry Zito, whose stats had been declining for a few years before he hit free agency.

you willing to go on record against that?? If not, then why argue.....because those who watch the game and watch Sabathia want no part of his next contract. He may be a servicable pitcher for a bit, but clearly nowheres near the ace money he'll be demanding.
!

No, I'm not willing to go on the record against that, AS I SAID, because I don't really disagree. He's a huge risk for a longterm contract due to his weight. I just am saying that he's far from where Barry Zito was. Zito had already obviously begun declining when he was given a gigantic contract. Sabathia hasn't, and if anything, has only been getting better. HOWEVER, I agree with you that a 6+ year contract for a player like him would likely turn out badly. I wouldn't go over 4 years with him.

Come on, ya biased Sawx fan... Getting used to losing? Yeah... winning 95 games consistently certainly is losing. At least we'll never ever be lovable LOSERS. Phil Hughes is still the real deal, and I tend to believe that Ian Kennedy will be fine... what about Clay Buchholz and his 5.53 ERA; I'd say he is the one that is overrated.

You know, this bickering between Yankees and Red Sox fans over who has the better young pitchers is really getting on my nerves. Clay Buchholz has huge potential. So does Phil Hughes. Neither has done that well in the majors. They're also both very young. The HUGE majority of "top" pitching prospects don't make it. The odds are heavily against ALL pitching prospects. It's completely silly to argue over which Red Sox and Yankees pitchers have been busts after like barely 100 innings in the bigs for each pitcher, when each pitcher is still in their early 20's. As of right now, NONE of them are busts. It's far too early to say anything.

[dickay]

And this is why you're considered a troll on the espn message boards.

Huh?? I don't believe I've ever posted on the ESPN message board?? WTF lol??

Come on, ya biased Sawx fan... Getting used to losing? Yeah... winning 95 games consistently certainly is losing. At least we'll never ever be lovable LOSERS.

In Yankeetown, winning 95 games consistently and blowing turds in the playoffs 'is considered losing'!! They've said for I don't know how many years now, anything less than getting to or even winning a WS is a dissapointment and failure. Those aren't my feelings, thats the Yankee's brass. Spending that kind of money, I can't blame them, and any real Yankee fan has to feel the same way. If the Red Sox don't make it to the WS this year, it is a losing season & a disappointment, even though there are many competitive teams in the league. Be honest with yourself will ya?

Phil Hughes is still the real deal, and I tend to believe that Ian Kennedy will be fine... what about Clay Buchholz and his 5.53 ERA; I'd say he is the one that is overrated.

Well, I did go a bit overboard. I do believe Hughes has alot of talent though by no means is he the messiah NYY fans have made him to be. You don't see me in here tooting the horns of any prospect pitchers (including Bucholtz) because I've seen too many can't misses...miss. I have always said I like Lester's mental makeup and see him as a Frank Viola #1 or #2 pitcher one day. But I have in no way gone out of the way to tout him as a can't miss. Kennedy and Sanchez however, you know the Yankee fans have to wake up one day and realize that their farm system is more a product of marketing than talent. Nearly every scout said Kennedy was a number three at best, but the Yankee machine touted him as the next Pettite practically. They pump up their prospects so much....they easily sell their fans how great these prospects are and often sell many of those firms that rank prospects the same. It's called spin, and they Yanks put such a spin on their prospects its rediculous. Now every team surely does it, but the Yankees are the standard bearer.

Sabathia screams Barry Zito huh?

Yes, in the 'fact' he will get a huge contract and then toilet! Even the statheads (not referring to the sensitive HGM) are afraid of him, and statistically everything points to him at or neariing the peak level of his career. Mental makeup, work ethic, those are all things that stats cannot quantify and where Sabathia has serious question marks. No need to debate it further, just after the Yanks sign him to 100+ million, remember where to find this thread and bring it up in a couple years and apologize for your ignorance.

Haha, talk about DUMB signings... Fan of a team that signed Lugo, and Drew.

I never said the Red Sox don't make dumb signings. Were those any worse than Pavano, Giambi, Farnsworth, Irabu, Igawa, Brown, Damon, Clemens (rd2), etc.etc.etc. I was too surprised to see just how terrible Lugo was last year, and watching Drew no doubt he was less than stellar lol. Drew has not been horrific, his OBP has been pretty good and there is still hope that year two allows him to relax a bit. Regardless, I agreed at the time they way overpaid for what he brings.

Prior to last year, he had 4 average years (2001, 2002, 2004, 2005), a solid year (2003), and a great year (2006). In other words, a very valuable pitcher, and is just now hitting the usual peak years.

Prior to 06 he was not ace quality which is the money being discussed here, and 06 being 'ace' quality of this financial magnitude is also iffy but i'll give it to ya. 07 he was great...and as you mention he should just now be hitting the peak years. That said, why statistically would you be concerned about him? For the same reasons I mentioned however, mental makeup, work ethic, weight. Stats can't help us make a fiscally responsible decision. Someone brought up David Wells. Wells IMO had EMENSE talent but never harnessed it because of his subpar work ethic and weight difficulties. He did however have that 'mental makeup' that no I can't quantify in numbers but yes we all know or should know what I'm referring to. His emense talent and makeup allowed him to overcome his poor work ethic. Sabathia doesn't have the talent or makeup of Wells.

HOWEVER, I agree with you that a 6+ year contract for a player like him would likely turn out badly. I wouldn't go over 4 years with him.

Your statements are fair and reasonable, I agree with most but would not even go 4 with CC. Honestly, I'd be cautious at going three and it's a moot point because if he's halfway decent this year he'll be looking at 5 plus without question.

You know, this bickering between Yankees and Red Sox fans over who has the better young pitchers is really getting on my nerves. Clay Buchholz has huge potential. So does Phil Hughes. Neither has done that well in the majors. They're also both very young. The HUGE majority of "top" pitching prospects don't make it. The odds are heavily against ALL pitching prospects. It's completely silly to argue over which Red Sox and Yankees pitchers have been busts after like barely 100 innings in the bigs for each pitcher, when each pitcher is still in their early 20's. As of right now, NONE of them are busts. It's far too early to say anything.

I agree, they shouldn't be called busts. In some cases (Kennedy) I think we can honestly debate whether he's been overrated at this point however. That aside, none are busts, but my problem is how Yankee fans scream that Hughes is the next Koufax. LAST YEAR Mike Francesca on the syndicated Mike & the Mad Dog pinned the hopes of the yankee season in early summer on Phil Hughes!! That was last year!! Completely stupid statements and expectations for this kid. Yankee fans put way too much pressure and expectations on this kid.

[HoustonGM]

Prior to 06 he was not ace quality which is the money being discussed here, and 06 being 'ace' quality of this financial magnitude is also iffy but i'll give it to ya. 07 he was great...and as you mention he should just now be hitting the peak years. That said, why statistically would you be concerned about him?

Statistically, you shouldn't be concerned about him, which is my point - he's very different from Barry Zito. Zito had already been declining when he was given a megadeal.

For the same reasons I mentioned however, mental makeup, work ethic, weight. Stats can't help us make a fiscally responsible decision. Someone brought up David Wells. Wells IMO had EMENSE talent but never harnessed it because of his subpar work ethic and weight difficulties. He did however have that 'mental makeup' that no I can't quantify in numbers but yes we all know or should know what I'm referring to. His emense talent and makeup allowed him to overcome his poor work ethic. Sabathia doesn't have the talent or makeup of Wells.

I think Sabathia's talent is far and away better than that of Wells. However, I don't know about his makeup. I haven't heard these accusations of poor mental makeup and bad work ethic that you've said have been said about Sabathia. Care to point me to anything saying that (manager quotes, player quotes, etc.)?

I agree, they shouldn't be called busts. In some cases (Kennedy) I think we can honestly debate whether he's been overrated at this point however.

True. Yankee fans have made Kennedy out to be some up and coming ace. However, nearly all scouts have concurred that his upside is that of a solid mid-rotation starter.

That aside, none are busts, but my problem is how Yankee fans scream that Hughes is the next Koufax. LAST YEAR Mike Francesca on the syndicated Mike & the Mad Dog pinned the hopes of the yankee season in early summer on Phil Hughes!! That was last year!! Completely stupid statements and expectations for this kid. Yankee fans put way too much pressure and expectations on this kid.

Mike & the Mad Dog say hilariously stupid things so much, that I wouldn't even put any weight into anything they say, lol.

[dickay]

Mike & the Mad Dog say hilariously stupid things so much, that I wouldn't even put any weight into anything they say, lol.

This is so ironically comical, coming from the guy who takes issue with every stupid statement Dusty Baker has to say LMAO.

[dickay]

I think Sabathia's talent is far and away better than that of Wells. However, I don't know about his makeup. I haven't heard these accusations of poor mental makeup and bad work ethic that you've said have been said about Sabathia. Care to point me to anything saying that (manager quotes, player quotes, etc.)?

How bout a self-admission from CC himself? Below is a link to a sporting news article. I cut out and italicized the paragraphs which claim that CC admitted that he isn't a big 'workout warrior' or so it was put. I've seen and heard this quite a bit throughout the years. For many years he was expected to be one of the best in the game. It all came together last year, but I for one don't believe it will last.

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn...c.php?t=399816


"Sabathia has slumped before, but he never has done that on the heels of a season with 256 1/3 innings. A generation ago, that would not have been an extraordinary number of innings for a season. In the current climate of five-man rotations, pitch counts and the three-round playoff meat grinder, working 250-plus innings can be a draining iron-man feat. It can be even harder on an oversized pitcher who is less than a workout warrior, as Sabathia admits is true of him."

Like Sabathia, Fernandez was 26 years old when he joined the 250-inning club. Fernandez pitched 258 innings with the Chicago White Sox in '96 but made only 64 more starts and was finished by age 30. Fernandez, like Sabathia, also had a laissez faire approach to conditioning.

[TheNamelessPoet]

Mike & the Mad Dog say hilariously stupid things so much, that I wouldn't even put any weight into anything they say, lol.

agreed

[Polkovnik_Alex]

My wishlist:

March 30, 2009: A highly localized 9.5 earthquake strikes the Bronx, levelling New Yankee Stadium. The only casualty is Hank Steinbrenner, who tripped over his wallet trying to get out.

April: With no place to play, the Yankees are forced to move operations to...well, I don't care where. They were talking about the Yale Bowl back in the '70s.

June: With its reduced capacity, the Yanks can't make payroll and go bankrupt.

July: After the ASG is moved for obvious reasons, MLB votes 29-1 that it's not worth waiting for the Yanks to rebuild. They take away Steinbrenner's franchise and move it to Winnipeg.

October: Winnipeg owners decide to honor 'their' heritage and keep the team's secondary name. The Winnipeg Wang join the American League.

Very honorable way to hope your rival team doesn't beat you. I bet your quote is "Yankees, can't beat em', so let's hope they get removed from the MLB".

And I know your post isn't something you expect to happen... but it definitely is something you're wishing for.

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

I'd compare C.C. more to Bartolo Colon than I would to Zito. C.C. still probably has two or three really solid seasons in him before he hits a wall and his weight catches up to him, as did Colon (He didn't really deserve that Cy Young, he only got it because of the wins from playing on a good team), before he starts to decline. How steep a decline that will be remains to be seen, but I have a feeling that C.C. is going to become injury prone very soon because of his weight. If he can trim himself down significantly I think he'll be real good for quite a while, but if he stays at the weight hes at hes doomed to a fairly early decline because of those pounds hes packing. I personally think he'll end up getting traded at the deadline this year anyways.

As for Hughes and Kennedy, I remember reading somewhere, I'll try to find the link, that the Yankees admit to overhyping and overrating them. From everywhere I've heard its pretty much accepted that Kennedy's ceiling is a #3 or #4 starter, and I've personally heard more about him as a #4 than a #3. Hughes has the potential to be good, but I just see him as a poor man's Justin Verlander, #2 type and not this super-ace Yankee fans are expecting. I remember Jason Giambi and the brilliant (sarcasm) Yankees media comparing him to Roger Clemens before he'd even pitched at AAA, or maybe it was AA, a few Spring Trainings ago. Joba I think is the real deal, though not maybe to such a high degree as a lot of people are expecting. I think he'll be a legitimate ace, but he does look a bit hefty, and he is young and he'll have to adjust to facing guys the second and third times through the order and adjust to starting in general, but I think hes the best of the Yankees pitching prospects by a wide margin. Now, given I've seen more of Buchholz than I have of Hughes and I am a Red Sox fan, I think Buchholz will be better. His change is absolutely jaw-dropping, and his curve and fastball are just as good, his slider isn't on the same tier as the change and curve, but it still grades out very well from what I've seen of it. Buck's problem, it seems to me, is that he hasn't really learned how to pitch, which doesn't surprise me since hes 24 and hes only been pitching for a few seasons because he was a SS in college IIRC, and that he doesn't really pitch off his fastballs and he doesn't do the subtle things that you need to do to be successful. Once he learns how to pitch and gets some of the subtle things down he'll be real, real good.

With Boras as Teixeira's agent hes gonna be asking for the moon in negotiations. If you think the Yankees aren't going to have any competition and that they're a lock for him, you've got another thing coming. I could see the Dodgers, Mets, Mariners, Angels, Red Sox (just to drive up the price on the Yankees, or perhaps as a replacement to Manny if they don't pick up his option) all seriously in on him, along with the Yankees. I could also see the Giants, Phillies, and Orioles as sleepers on him. Hes gonna end up with an 8 year deal at 18+ mil per year, which I think is a bit much for him, but the market is what it is. Hes a GG caliber first basemen and hes a real good hitter, but he'll be making A-Rod money and A-Rod's on a completely different planet from Tex'.

As for the Yankees in general, its just the natural cycle of sports. All teams go through a period of winning and a period of losing (rebuilding), and its the Yankees time to rebuild, as much as you Yankee fans don't want to hear it, just as it is the Tigers and Brewers to win again.

[RickD]

Yankees to win!