Athlete dies after being forced to compete

[dickay]

First it was they were being forced to do something....then after numerous modifications I think it currently stands at it is cruelty if the animal is forced to do something for profit. You've made so many exceptions to your initial argument after being given numerous comparisons, that it really appears you are simply trying to hold onto your initial assumption at all costs regardless of how silly the argument seems.

[Arctic Blast]

Almost all of our food supply is now given drugs in one form or another for many reasons, making them bigger is the least of them. Often it is to avoid disease or provide vitamins etc. to maintain health. Cruelty?

Actually, I have a problem with the regular injection of cattle with antibiotics, but it has nothing to do with cruelty. It has everything to do with the fact that numerous studies are now showing that the constant injection of food animals with antibiotics has increased the exposure rate that viruses have to those antibiotics, and is a major factor in the quicker-than-expected viral mutations that have made many previously treatable diseases hardened against current antibiotic medications.

[ohms_law]

Yea...

[SirKodiak]

Actually, I have a problem with the regular injection of cattle with antibiotics, but it has nothing to do with cruelty. It has everything to do with the fact that numerous studies are now showing that the constant injection of food animals with antibiotics has increased the exposure rate that viruses have to those antibiotics, and is a major factor in the quicker-than-expected viral mutations that have made many previously treatable diseases hardened against current antibiotic medications.

For me, it actually does have something to do with cruelty, but in a different way. The reason they have to inject them with the antibiotics is because most stockyards keep cattle in unsanitary and crowded conditions prior to slaughter. Of course, I agree with you on the overuse of antibiotics and the consequences of that.

[free2131]

This was my first thread I ever posted on Sports Mogul. This was also my first ever encounter with Dickay, where he tried to twist my words and threw out multiple strawmen. Those were the days, huh fellas?

I still find horse racing and animals forced to preform deplorable.

[dickay]

Years later and your argument is still absurd. What you like to call "strawmen" are in fact fair examples for comparison showing a lack of consistency in your argument. This below still fits best. Now stop abusing your cat by making him/her use the litter box will ya . and for emphasis

So your issue is the whip. If they take the whip away, it'll be something else. Some horses are work horses, these are race horses. Some dogs are used on the police force, some are used to help the blind. I guess these are not ok?? Or, because no whip is used they are OK??? I'm confused.

How bout the invisible fences?? Or bark collars?? I trained dogs in the past, and will tell you that the pinch collar I had to use was much much more humane than the regular collar I used as the dog was constantly pulling and hurting himself before the pinch collar taught him not to. I suppose I should have just let him off the leash as leash corrections are cruelty??

We can go further. How bout cats made to use a litter box??? Really, of course the cat doesn't like it, they try to bury it when their done. Many say it humiliates them. My old roommate fed crickets to his snake. OMG the torture.

Lets get real. These animals are very well cared for and loved at the top end of this sport at least. Today you gripe about the leash, tomorrow its because they are kept in stable and not allowed to roam.

[dickay]

lol'd at the bold part, and love the comparison to professional athletes. How dare their coaches make them run, do pushups and other physically exhausting punishments during their development:

All I have to say is what do horses do in the wild?

Anyone?

Anyone?

Run.

That's what they are built for physically. It's not like they are taking horses and making them throw shot puts or something. The fact that people make a lot of money off of the sport is simply a by product of it's popularity.

Most horses are treated fairly, and most even better than some humans. Sure there are people that treat them badly, just like their are people that beat their kids.

Entertainment is something that society needs to survive. If the animals are treated fairly and taken well care of then what is the harm? Do you know what the horse is thinking? He might be having the time of his life running around the track. I know that when I have watched dog races the dogs are some of the happiest that I have ever seen once then get back to their owners after they race.

If using an animal soley for the entertainment of humans and to make money is wrong then how do you watch major league baseball? Isn't that what we are doing to our own kind? Tell me what assistance Ryan Howard hitting a homerun gives society other than making it money?

We can take it a little further as well if you want to. What does making money do? It assists society. We have to have money to buy the things that we need in life. We have to stimulate the economy and if you think for a second that the Kentucky Derby doesn't stimulate that heck out of the economy, especially in Kentucky, then you are dead wrong.

[cadmus2166]

lol'd at the bold part, and love the comparison to professional athletes. How dare their coaches make them run, do pushups and other physically exhausting punishments during their development:

I think free's point is that athletes have a choice in the matter. Horses don't.

[free2131]

I think free's point is that athletes have a choice in the matter. Horses don't.

Don't bother. I answered all his "points" years ago. It's the same old tired song and dance. For some reason he doesn't see a difference in animals used to actually benefit society in some way and pointlessly exploiting animals for amusement, and in his world capturing whales and dolphins to preform at SeaWorld is the same as a cat using a litterbox.

[Alloutwar]

I've never been to a horse race, or a greyhound race. I know there have been efforts to end greyhound racing due to the practices and fire from animal welfare groups. I feel like, somewhere in the future, both would be gone forever, just wisps of history like cockfighting. I also envision NASCAR being run on electric motors, rather than gas, though...so that future may be 15-20 years off, or 100, depending on our smarts.

I look forward to a future where Kentucky has better ways of stimulating its economy, and our culture has moved on to better forms of entertainment. In the old days, when Gladiators were at the coliseum, and Aztecs gathers for celebration, it wasn't 'entertainment' unless there was human death, or at least the constant threat of it. As the centuries pass, our average entertainment will hopefully be less atrocious.

Except for MTV, the Kardashians, and all the reality crap teeny boppers watch on TV...ugh. Gladiator bloodsport is better than that in most ways.

[cadmus2166]

Don't bother. I answered all his "points" years ago. It's the same old tired song and dance. For some reason he doesn't see a difference in animals used to actually benefit society in some way and pointlessly exploiting animals for amusement, and in his world capturing whales and dolphins to preform at SeaWorld is the same as a cat using a litterbox.

That's pretty sad.

[dickay]

I think free's point is that athletes have a choice in the matter. Horses don't.

Run those suicides or you're off the team.

Horses have same choice.

Does the police dog have a choice using his positions? No. But it's a purpose he finds palatable so it's ok. My only point is that he refuses to acknowledge the hypocrisy of his position. At the highest level these forces are cared for immensely, theyre bred for racing and they want to race. They thrive on it. The whip included. Given the choice at its core sure it would Rather in the wild. That's no different than the medics dog police dog or the cat that free holds hostage in his house

[free2131]

At the highest level these forces are cared for immensely, theyre bred for racing and they want to race. They thrive on it. The whip included. Given the choice at its core sure it would Rather in the wild. That's no different than the medics dog police dog or the cat that free holds hostage in his house

You are clinically insane. BTW, those choke collars you swear to? Real humane...

[cadmus2166]

Run those suicides or you're off the team.

Horses have same choice.

Does the police dog have a choice using his positions? No. But it's a purpose he finds palatable so it's ok. My only point is that he refuses to acknowledge the hypocrisy of his position. At the highest level these forces are cared for immensely, theyre bred for racing and they want to race. They thrive on it. The whip included. Given the choice at its core sure it would Rather in the wild. That's no different than the medics dog police dog or the cat that free holds hostage in his house

Dude if you really believe this, you are a Class A douchebag, with no empathy for anything.

[filihok]

Run those suicides or you're off the team.

Horses have same choice.

http://www.tubechop.com/watch/3425437