Athlete dies after being forced to compete

[free2131]

First off, I only brought up the whole nature argument when you said that the horses were born to race, when clearly they weren't.

Police dogs help the police in situations that would be too dangerous for a human officer to be in. They are also used to assist the blind be able to "see" and be safe when they go out in public.

Racing horses are used to make people money. Great cause compared to the other two, huh?

Dogs are trained with collars so they won't run off and possibly be ran over or attack another dog or person (or from being attacked). That is for their own good; to protect them from something that they aren't aware could potentially be harmful to them.

I view training a dog in that matter as I do raising kids. Sometimes, discipline is required to teach them.

As for cats, they cover up their excrement because the odor is unpleasant (they try to cover it up no matter where they use it). I'm not sure how it could be humiliating, seeing as how my two cats from when they were able have used a litter box without being trained.

As I said before, the fact that these animals are cared well for doesn't change the fact that they are physically forced to race for the sole purpose of making their owners money.

I think that is wrong. You don't. No big deal.

[Arctic Blast]

Actually, seeing as performance enhancement has been such an issue in baseball (and, as a result, around here), take a look at the record of horse racing. It's deplorable! That's where I have an issue with the business. If Barry Bonds wants to treat himself like a drug lab, fine, HE decided that, and HE can live with the consequences...the horse doesn't get asked. They just get shot full of stimulants before a race, tranquilizers after, hormones all the time, and, often, growth hormone and animal steroids. ****, the guy who owns the horse that won the derby has been fined and suspended from the business TWICE for doing just that to horses in the past. The horse racing industry is a pretty dirty little business.

And, back to the topic of personal stupidity, I'll come completely clean. I once knew a guy who somehow got himself a bottle of horse stim. Anyway, one day, he and I are going to the gym, he takes his dose, I decide "What the ****!" and do the same (a few drops on the tongue with a dropper). After doing an hour and a half of hard cardio (which is an insane amount) and not really feeling winded, I ended up adding a good chunk of weight to every lift I did, AND did more reps. The next day, couldn't get out of bed.

Now, OBVIOUSLY, this was intensely stupid, but I was the only one hurt by it. Imagine what life is like for an animal that gets shot full of this **** DAILY, and they don't get a say.

[gRYFYN1]

What about gaurd dogs ?
Circus animals?
Zoo Animals?
Sea World ?
Disney?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_w...sion_at_s.html

[dickay]

What about gaurd dogs ?
Circus animals?
Zoo Animals?
Sea World ?
Disney?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_w...sion_at_s.html

You mean Shamu wasn't bred to live in a tank and do flips with some lunatic human riding it while millions of paying customers watch? Oh the torture!! Even if they feed him/her (what is it) alot of fish, no different than those caring for slaves.

[jcbarr]

I don't want anyone to take this the wrong way or personally, but it's just another instance of "people" picking and choosing which fights they want to fight and when they want to put themselves in to the spotlight.

I find it amusing that this sort of thing has been happening for a long time in this sport and only now is anyone hearing about it because of where and how it happened. What about all the horses that don't perform and hurt themselves before they even see the race track? Do we track them all down and demand that they are suspended and that legal action is taken agains them? No we don't. We don't because we "really" don't care that much.

People care because it happened on TV. If it were just another race that wasn't televised then the community would say a few words for the horse and talk about how unfortunate it all was and that would be the end of it.

If using an animal for monetary gain is immoral then you have a heck of a lot of fighting to do around the world as a whole.

The fact that the horse died is a tragedy, but not one that needs to be all over the news. This is not an issue for PETA. What do you think the jockey could have really done to stop this? It was the cool down lap for god's sake, it wasn't like he was whipping the horse in the cool down lap.

[dickay]

I don't want anyone to take this the wrong way or personally, but it's just another instance of "people" picking and choosing which fights they want to fight and when they want to put themselves in to the spotlight.

I find it amusing that this sort of thing has been happening for a long time in this sport and only now is anyone hearing about it because of where and how it happened. What about all the horses that don't perform and hurt themselves before they even see the race track? Do we track them all down and demand that they are suspended and that legal action is taken agains them? No we don't. We don't because we "really" don't care that much.

People care because it happened on TV. If it were just another race that wasn't televised then the community would say a few words for the horse and talk about how unfortunate it all was and that would be the end of it.

If using an animal for monetary gain is immoral then you have a heck of a lot of fighting to do around the world as a whole.

The fact that the horse died is a tragedy, but not one that needs to be all over the news. This is not an issue for PETA. What do you think the jockey could have really done to stop this? It was the cool down lap for god's sake, it wasn't like he was whipping the horse in the cool down lap.

well said. A horse is euthanized during races anyway once every 1000 starts. Doesn't seem like alot until you learn that there are approximately 6000 horse race starts per day in America. (i got this stuff from espn radio mike & mike in the morning). So that's 6 horses per day put down on the field.

You hit it on the head. These aren't new numbers......but now those looking for a fight are jumping on it. I can understand if they came to the table saying 6 per day is too many and this is what we can do to reduce the number.....but they complain and cry foul without any knowledge whatsoever about the sport? Whatever happened to having an open mind and researching? I couldn't tell you if 6 per day is too many, or if anything could be done. Sure it does sound like alot, and I have no problem with PETA or anyone investigating. But to make blatant allegations without research is pretty shotty.

[free2131]

Any time an animal is used and/ or abused for the sole purpose of making someone else profit, it is wrong in my opinion. Animals should only be trained and or used if by doing so it benefits society in some way. Fighting crime; benefits society. Helping the blind to "see"; helping society. Feeding people; benefits society. Making people money? Nope sorry, not good enough (for me anyway).

Some people here seem to say that I thought whipping and or mis-care caused this horse to be put down. That's not the case, as I am aware that the circumstances were as such that nothing else could be done.

What I am doing is to question the circumstances that put that horse in the position to be injured. I have always thought using animals for entertainment purposes is wrong.

But, yeah, lets ignore all my other points and say, "Durrrr... you said horse was a people!!!11!!! Duh, stoopid!!!111!!one!!"

What about gaurd dogs ?
Under certain circumstances, yes I would be fine with that.

Circus animals?
Zoo Animals?
Sea World ?
Disney?
Nope.

I didn't read your article, but if you are linking a story on the dolphin that dies a week or so ago, I found that as disgusting as I did this.

[HoustonGM]

Doesn't entertainment help society, even if not in such an obvious way as crime-fighting or helping disabled people?

[free2131]

Entertainment at the expense of living beings is not something I find acceptable.

[free2131]

I've re-read through this topic and I think I can sum up my thoughts in a few lines.

Morally (speaking of course of my own morality) it is wrong to use animals in ways that would be considered cruel and unusual.

I do not find training dogs to be used to assist in the ways I've outlined previously cruel or unusual, as long as there is no pain involved (unless it is absolutely necessary).

I do not find using animals for food cruel or unusual as long as they are properly cared for and not injected with any drugs to make them bigger or other reasons.

I DO find it cruel, unusual, and the height of hubris to think that we as a civilized people have the right to use animals strictly for our entertainment.

[ohms_law]

I DO find it cruel, unusual, and the height of hubris to think that we as a civilized people have the right to use animals strictly for our entertainment.

Why?

I'm not talking about chicken or dog fights either. There's no intent to injure horses who are entered in a race. Injuries do happen of course, just as they happen in sporting events that human being take part in. There's reasonable effort made to reduce or even eliminate injuries in horse racing, just as there is reasonable effort to reduce injuries in, say, football. Honestly, I don't get it.

[dickay]

Why?

Because his arguments have been shot down every which way to Sunday and now, refusing to admit they were baseless, he's trying to cling onto anything.

What about show dogs? Is that cruelty to animals? Or what about Liza Minelli's dog who she left millions to in her will and has more personal assistants on his payroll than we'll have people at our big birthday parties? He's been in commercials etc....i guess that's cruelty.

I do not find using animals for food cruel or unusual as long as they are properly cared for and not injected with any drugs to make them bigger or other reasons.

Almost all of our food supply is now given drugs in one form or another for many reasons, making them bigger is the least of them. Often it is to avoid disease or provide vitamins etc. to maintain health. Cruelty?

Those riding camels or horses in the desert? I don't think they were built with the intention of having someone atop them in a dry environment of 100+ degrees. (i'm reaching now )

You must have hated Dr. Doolittle, Mr. Ed, and Lassie. How dare they use an animal for profit. Sure, now those animals are beloved, still doesn't make it right.

[jcbarr]

All I have to say is what do horses do in the wild?

Anyone?

Anyone?

Run.

That's what they are built for physically. It's not like they are taking horses and making them throw shot puts or something. The fact that people make a lot of money off of the sport is simply a by product of it's popularity.

Most horses are treated fairly, and most even better than some humans. Sure there are people that treat them badly, just like their are people that beat their kids.

Entertainment is something that society needs to survive. If the animals are treated fairly and taken well care of then what is the harm? Do you know what the horse is thinking? He might be having the time of his life running around the track. I know that when I have watched dog races the dogs are some of the happiest that I have ever seen once then get back to their owners after they race.

If using an animal soley for the entertainment of humans and to make money is wrong then how do you watch major league baseball? Isn't that what we are doing to our own kind? Tell me what assistance Ryan Howard hitting a homerun gives society other than making it money?

We can take it a little further as well if you want to. What does making money do? It assists society. We have to have money to buy the things that we need in life. We have to stimulate the economy and if you think for a second that the Kentucky Derby doesn't stimulate that heck out of the economy, especially in Kentucky, then you are dead wrong.

[Alloutwar]

Frank DeFord had some interesting comments on this this morning on NPR. Obviously, he doesn't think it's something for PETA can find fault with, and I don't think it's really gross or unjust; however, you have to admit, the horse breeding industry has focused on speed, speed, speed for years. They've genetically engineered horses to be as fast as possible at the expense of all else, and pass those genetic issues on with every generation. Horses run in the wild, but they also mate freely in the wild instead of being forced to inbreed, and they also don't run with a dude on their back, spiking and whipping them to go faster. Just to be fair.

He brings up the point that european horse racing is much more balanced, and demands some actual brain use and strategy, rather than just getting the most speed all the time. Also, we allow horses to get drugs, which may or may not have an impact; from what I hear, this is not the case in european racing as well.

Honestly, I don't watch horse racing, and I sorta think it should eventually die off as we come up with better ways to entertain ourselves. After all, gladiator bouts don't really happen anymore, and they were once entertainment. But, I personally also think auto racing should be done away with...unless it can be done with 0 pollution and such. But, that's just me!

[jcbarr]

I'm not even going to touch the argument about pollution and auto racing...

I agree with most of what you have said. Someone above brought up the fact that 1 horse in every 1000 races comes up lame and has to be put down. Also they stated that 6000 races happen every day. I agree that 6 horses having to be put down on average every day is a little excessive. Sure they should look in to it and find out what is going on. There should be regulations, and I'm not sure what kind of drugs that they give them, but there should certainly be someone regulating that sort of thing.

The breeding of the horses is what causes the physical and mental deformaties and that is something that needs to be looked at if you are going to argue that it is the owners faults that these horses are coming up lame as often as they are. However there is nothing regulating what animals you can mate with what. It happens all the time in the dog breeding world. For instance a long haird dachsund is a product of excessive inbreeding...