Hey, we've had some bad ones in Chicago over the years. 100 years of losing should prove that fact.
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Hey, we've had some bad ones in Chicago over the years. 100 years of losing should prove that fact.
o
Competive != great.Originally Posted by Coach Owens
So, which is it? Is it about how bad he is, or about who's worse?
I agree that he's horrible.
That's not much of a difference when you actually get down to the make up of the payroll. Carlos Silva, Adrian Beltre, and Ichiro Suzuki make up that $41 million. Silva was a poor signing, but compare that to Sabean's recent free agent pitcher signing...Giants Payroll: $76,904,500
Mariner Payroll: $117,993,982
Difference: 41million dollars... So I guess Sabean is smart, he can spend 41million dollars less and still suck.
Problemo?
You have to be good to compete though. The Mariners aren't good.
o
We'll see. They did compete last year, which is my point. At least Bavasi has fielded a competitive team.
The last time the Giants were competitive was 2004...the last year of Barry Bonds' monstrous peak. Coincidence?
Without Barry Bonds there to make Sabean's teams look respectable, Sabean would've been gone a long time ago. Bonds impact was clear.
Look at this:
2004, the team had an OPS+ total of 111, which is really good for a whole team (Boston in 2007 was 107, for example). They had 3 even semi-regular players above 100 - Snow who played 107 games, Durham who played 120 games, and Bonds.
2003, team OPS+ of 106. This team was more balanced, with but take away Bonds, and they're highest OPS+ was 118 by part-timer Andres Gallaragga, and they had a total of 4 players above their previous average of 106...and that's even including every player, regardless of playing time.
2002, team OPS+ of 116. Jeff Kent and Bonds were the only guys above 110.
2001, team OPS+ of 117. Kent, Aurilia, and Bonds were the only players above 110.
To illustrate just how much Bonds affected those averages, look at the afformentioned 2007 Red Sox with a team OPS+ of 107. They had 6 players above 110. Bonds was routinely the only, or one of a couple, players above 110, yet his team's routinely had an OPS+ above 110 - because his OPS+ was 16 billion.
Bonds is the only reason Sabean still has a job - Bonds made Sabean's teams good.
And that was my point. At least Bavasi has fielded a competitive team. Sabean sans Bonds hasn't, and we shouldn't give Sabean credit for Bonds.
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You mean 100 years, not having won it all once. The Cubs have not posted 100 years of <.500 seasons. Tired of hearing Cubs fan *****.
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Well first of all, I wasn't *****, I was actually making fun of that fact that its been forever since we've had a WS winner.
Plus we are just as tired of hearing you people ***** about us because we support our team even when they play bad, unlike most fans.
E=I*R
You know, the funny thing about that is it creates an atmosphere of mediocrity. Cubs fans support their team regardless, so what's the motivation for the Front Office to really lay out the cash to get that last piece of the puzzle and win a championship?
You insist that there is something a machine cannot do. If you will tell me precisely what it is that a machine cannot do, then I can always make a machine which will do just that! -J. von Neumann
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exactly, we've always been happy with having that one or two good players and I believe until recently the front office worried more about making money than spending it.
Cubs GM/M/Player
Actually, I get pretty pissed when when we lose.
E=I*R
It doesn't matter how pissed you get. You still go to the games, watch on TV, and/or purchase merchandise. That's the real measure of fan satisfaction.
You insist that there is something a machine cannot do. If you will tell me precisely what it is that a machine cannot do, then I can always make a machine which will do just that! -J. von Neumann
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I don't know about GM's, but Jeffrey Loria is not only possibly the worst owner in baseball, but probably all of professional sports.
He makes Mark Cuban and Dan Snyder look competent (at least those two have fielded winning teams without feeling the need to fire sale the whole roster the next season).
He gripes incessantly about the poor quality of Dolphins Stadium (admittedly, football stadiums aren't great for baseball), but there are plenty of worse stadiums in the majors...Shea, Oakland Coliseum, the Metrodome, and, until last year, possibly the worst stadium ever used for Major LEague Baseball, RFK...which succeeded the second worst ever, Olympic in Montreal.
He fired the brightest young managerial prospect in the sport for disagreeing with him over arguing with the umpires. I know the talent level is disparate, but if Girardi could make the 2006 Marlins competetive, imagine what he can do with the Yankees lineup...and I say this as a Red Sox fan.
On top of which, this is the second MLB franchise he's raped, pillaged, and destroyed. If not for him, I think the Expos might have survived.
And now that the city of Miami and the state of Florida have caved in and are giving him his new stadium, do you think he'll actually field a competetive team? Will he raise payroll? Or is he simply going to rake in the profits from the new yard a la Peter Angelos and watch his record stay in the cellar?
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In regards to Loria, don't forget all the untold millions he pockets from the league revenue sharing system. As far as I know, this data is unavailable to the public as to just how each team spends the revenue shares they receive annually. But it seems fairly apparent that all Loria has done with the money is to pocket it and continue to lament the poor financial situation down in Miami. I agree, he is truly awful.
But I am curious as to why you referenced Mark Cuban when you said Loria makes Cuban look competent. I'm also an NBA fan and think he has done a lot for basketball in Dallas. He revitalized the Mavericks franchise, made it a destination for free agents when it previously wasn't, presided over a team that should have won the title(but got absolutely jobbed by the refs and their infatuation with DWade and Shaq), and other than the knee-jerk Jason Kidd trade this season, has done a pretty good job in drafting/scouting/trading. Sure he runs his mouth every now and then, but personally, I think it's kind of refreshing. Juuuust thought I'd ask.
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Mostly in reference to his interfering in the operations of the franchise. Cuban and Snyder (I'm a Redskins fan, so I'm intimately acquainted with this one) are both famous for interfering to an extreme amount in on-the-field (court) operations. Cuban has had more success than Snyder, who has had more success than Loria, but none of them have been successful to the point that I believe it justifies their involvement on-field this way.
o
By the way, I think Barry Zito is single-handedly proving Brian Sabean to be the worst GM in baseball.Of course, it's only a little more than a year into the contract, but players that throw 90 and have been progressively losing veocity and then drop to 83 generally don't gain that velocity back. I wholeheartedly believe that Barry Zito will go down as the worst free agent contract in history. Handing out that much money for that long to a player who showed signs of decline is just incompetence at its worst.
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I brought this up on another forum. Darren Dreifort got $55 million, he hadn't accomplished anything in his career up to that point, and only lasted 2 out of 7 years on the contract before he was out of the game. At least Zito had previously accomplished something (even if that Cy Young Award was the voters endorsement of Moneyball more than a deserved honor)
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