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Thread: Big Papi's big slump

  1. #1
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    Big Papi's big slump

    NEW YORK -- Red Sox star David Ortiz is dressing quietly in the corner of the visitors' clubhouse at Yankee Stadium, hoping nobody asks him about his hitting, which borders on nonexistent now. Ortiz is fresh off another dreary 1-for-5 performance in Boston's 15-9 defeat to the rival Yankees. While continuing his efforts toward a hasty exit after a four-hour game he mentions, glumly, "I've been talking about my hitting all day.''

    But that doesn't keep Ortiz from talking more.

    "If I get frustrated right now, I'm f-----,'' he tells SI.com. "I got to keep hitting, got to keep working. And it will come. It will come to Papi.''

    So far, it isn't even close to coming. Among baseball's 203 qualifiers, Ortiz is dead last in batting average (.121), slugging percentage (.172) and OPS (.411).

    For baseball's best clutch hitter over the past several seasons, it's practically the triple crown of ineptitude.

    "Keep on swinging, keep on working,'' Ortiz says to explain his resolve to fix probably the biggest hitting slump of his career, and easily the biggest since he became a megastar in Boston.

    "Try to keep on fighting, bro,'' continues Ortiz, who is 7-for-58. "Keep working, keep working, keep working. Next thing you know, it's on bro.''

    In the meantime, everyone is wondering when he will be on again, when he will be Big Papi again. Lately, he's been Big Popout.

    "Everybody's going crazy,'' Ortiz remarks about the headlines he's creating by making all these outs.

    This isn't his time, anyway, Ortiz explains. April's a time to learn, to see the pitchers, what they have and what they'll try.

    He hardly ever has a big April, he points out. Maybe once, he said, maybe twice. And it's true: Ortiz is a .267 career hitter in the season's traditional opening month, and his Aprils since coming to Boston have been nothing special, ranging from .212 to .301.

    "The way [fans and media] talk, it's like [they think] the pitchers put the ball on a tee, [and say] "Hit it Papi,''' Ortiz says. "They're trying to get you out.''

    That they continue to get him out is not going to get him down, he swears. Although, he didn't appear especially gleeful after his last at-bat Wednesday ended in a foul out to the catcher. He trudged back to the dugout, bat in hand, and keeps right on trudging. He paced back and forth in the dugout, bat still in hand.

    He may be out. but he's not down, he insists.

    Keep working, keep swinging. That's his motto.

    "I fight. That's my personality. I fight. Me and [Jason] Giambi. We were born to do things. Nobody can take it away from us. That's what I told Giambi. We'll get it done. People just need to relax.''

    Injuries hit epidemic proportions
    The Dodgers, Angels, Cubs, Brewers, Indians and Reds may be the teams with a big advantage if injuries pile up. For several teams, they already have.

    Club executives identified those six teams as having among the better benches in baseball. Considering the epidemic of injuries, it could be crucial to have a versatile and productive bench.

    The hot topics lately among major league general managers are the high number of injuries, and the increased time it's taking for players to return from them.

    The guess among some GMs is that one factor in the injury epidemic could be more stringent drug testing, which eliminated one possible aid to get back onto the field faster. It's either that, or a lot of bad luck.

    Here are the eye-opening figures for the disabled list (numbers given show the number of players on the disabled list on the first Friday of each season):

    2003: 82
    2004: 95
    2005: 97
    2006: 77
    2007: 102
    2008: 111

    As of yesterday, that disabled list total was up to 122. Ouch.

    The Cardinals and Rays lead their leagues with eight players apiece on the disabled list, with St. Louis having six pitchers alone on the list.

    The Orioles and Yankees are next with seven players apiece on the DL, while the Braves, Tigers, Marlins, Mets and Padres each have six.

    Around the Majors
    • Manny Ramirez recently told the Boston Herald he'd like to play six more years in Boston, then retire. Does he know something more than we know? Apparently not. The team holds options for 2009 and 2010 on him at $20 million apiece, options they are certain to exercise. If there's going to be an extension, though, there's no evidence the sides have spoken. Although, Red Sox assistant GM Jed Hoyer said, "We're thrilled he wants to stay.''

    • Francisco Cordero recently claimed the Brewers weren't aggressive enough going trying to keep him. But it's well known Milwaukee offered the closer $42 million over four years, which sounds pretty aggressive. And he can claim he didn't leave for the money. But a friend of his said his plan all along was to go to the highest bidder, which is what he did when he signed for $46 million with the Reds. Not that there's anything wrong with it.

    • Buck Showalter's reappearance on ESPN might make Indians manager Eric Wedge feel a tad better about his own job status. Showalter served the Indians for two years in an advisory role (read: manager in waiting). And he waited long enough.

    • Some guys just refuse to go on the disabled list. Jorge Posada and Tom Glavine are two of those guys. They have never been on the DL, and they appear to have avoided their first trip despite suffering injuries that surely would have pushed others to the DL. Glavine has a hamstring injury and Posada a shoulder injury.

    • Pedro Martinez's claim that he could be back pitching by late April seems pretty fanciful. He needs to start throwing first. June would seem to be a more likely bet than April.

    • Maybe the Mets should have waited on David Eckstein. They were annoyed Eckstein requested a $36 million, four-year contract, instead they thought they'd save $11 million and give a $25-million contract to Luis Castillo, who needed operations on both knees this winter. Eckstein wound up getting only a one year deal for $5 million from Toronto.

    • Congratulations to Jeff Idelson, who I remember starting in baseball as a PR man-in-training with the Yankees in the late '80s. That's a job that can prepare one for anything in life. And Idelson, 43, was just promoted to become president of the National Baseball Hall of Fame at Cooperstown, a big position indeed. And not an easy one, either. If Idelson thought dealing with George Steinbrenner was tough, my guess is that dealing with the likes of Joe Morgan, a Hall exec, is no picnic, either.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ruggles/1.html
    Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are .

  2. #2
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    Re: Big Papi's big slump

    Wow... hitting .121. He's just under the Giambi line.

    Quote Originally Posted by gleklufdshlaw View Post
    Unfortunately, I do not have all the answers...

  3. #3
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    Re: Big Papi's big slump

    It's rediculous that 3 weeks into the season people are already questioning a guy like Papi. He'll hit, and if he doesn't its because of injury and he'll be on the DL soon enough.

    Around the Majors
    • Manny Ramirez recently told the Boston Herald he'd like to play six more years in Boston, then retire. Does he know something more than we know? Apparently not. The team holds options for 2009 and 2010 on him at $20 million apiece, options they are certain to exercise. If there's going to be an extension, though, there's no evidence the sides have spoken. Although, Red Sox assistant GM Jed Hoyer said, "We're thrilled he wants to stay.''
    I personally agree that they are going to excersise the 09 option, but the way the Boston media talks its far from 'certain' that they will do so. There is apparently a feeling that if he has a years anywhere near his numbers of last year that he won't get near that 20 mil on the open market. I disagree, and feel that letting him hit FA will find that someone signs him for 20mil + long term.

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    Re: Big Papi's big slump

    Oh my GOD, it's been THREE WEEKs and he can't HIT!

    Let's release him and sign Bonds. LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by gleklufdshlaw View Post
    Unfortunately, I do not have all the answers...

  5. #5
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    Re: Big Papi's big slump

    I'm not entirely sure that he's going to bounce back, but I wasn't sure that Ryan Howard's slump wasn't a fluke last year. Papi is coming off his worst season since coming to Boston (Manny and Drew are also coming off bad years, but are playing great this year). He's 32, which is not old, but many great players have fallen apart around that age (though the decline stage usually begins about 5-10 years later). I expect Papi to go on the DL and he will either continue pulling a Giambi when he gets off or he will return to his form and carry the Sox to another division title (which, they're probably talented enough to win with or without Papi, but they're a lock with him).

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    Re: Big Papi's big slump

    Quote Originally Posted by Passed Ball View Post
    I'm not entirely sure that he's going to bounce back, but I wasn't sure that Ryan Howard's slump wasn't a fluke last year.
    Huh?

    Papi is coming off his worst season since coming to Boston (Manny and Drew are also coming off bad years, but are playing great this year).
    Are you kidding me? It was by far his best season since coming to Boston. His worst was his first. Yeah, he only hit 35 home runs, but look past that, PLEASE. His on-base percentage was 40 points higher than in any of his previous seasons. His slugging percentage was just 15 points lower than his previous high, because he set a career-high in doubles. His OPS+ of 171 was 10 points higher than his career-high he set in 2006. There is no way you can spin the numbers. 2007 has been David Ortiz's best year in terms of overall value.

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    Re: Big Papi's big slump

    Hopefully Papi's grand salami will shut down the morons complaining about his lack of production.

    BTW....anyone see the dugout shots of Lowrie, Ellsbury, and Pedroia sitting next to each other after the slam? Awesome to see such young talent coming along at the same time.

    At the end of the day....all the Yanks got is cash on us and you know how spending that has gone of late for them. I'm praying they open the vault for Sabathia. Cano is a nice young talent, and Hughes and Chamberlain have talent but Cabrera and Kennedy are nothing special. It has gotta be grueling to have to sit quietly and watch these three aforementioned young Sawx coupled with Youk, Papelbon, Lester, Bucholtz, and Delcarmen.

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    Re: Big Papi's big slump

    Quote Originally Posted by dickay View Post
    anyone see the dugout shots of Lowrie...
    Speaking of Lowrie, am I the only one that thinks he's a dead ringer for David Eckstein? I was watching the Yankees-Red Sox game the other night, and Lowrie came in for Youkilis and they panned to him before saying who he was and I went, "Since when is David Eckstein on the Red Sox?"
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    Re: Big Papi's big slump

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonGM View Post
    Speaking of Lowrie, am I the only one that thinks he's a dead ringer for David Eckstein? I was watching the Yankees-Red Sox game the other night, and Lowrie came in for Youkilis and they panned to him before saying who he was and I went, "Since when is David Eckstein on the Red Sox?"
    Wow, they are very similar. Nice observation. Can't wait to see Lowrie holding a trophy in a Sox uni!

  10. #10
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    Re: Big Papi's big slump

    Quote Originally Posted by dickay View Post
    Hopefully Papi's grand salami will shut down the morons complaining about his lack of production.

    BTW....anyone see the dugout shots of Lowrie, Ellsbury, and Pedroia sitting next to each other after the slam? Awesome to see such young talent coming along at the same time.

    At the end of the day....all the Yanks got is cash on us and you know how spending that has gone of late for them. I'm praying they open the vault for Sabathia. Cano is a nice young talent, and Hughes and Chamberlain have talent but Cabrera and Kennedy are nothing special. It has gotta be grueling to have to sit quietly and watch these three aforementioned young Sawx coupled with Youk, Papelbon, Lester, Bucholtz, and Delcarmen.

    Haha, ok, Sawk fan.

    Cano is better than any young talent that Sawx have. Phil Hughes is a projected #1, as is Chamberlain. Kennedy is a projected #3, but some think that he can sort of a Mike Mussina type. Melky has really improved this year, and I have no evidence to say that he is any worse, or any better than Ellsbury. Bret Gardner is basically an Ellsbury clone, but a slight notch down. Austin Jackson is a highly rated prospect, along with Jesus Montero (who has an 80/80 power right now according to scouts). We have Jose Tabata, also highly touted prospect. If you're gonna count Youk, I'm gonna count Wang (who is a year younger than Youk). Jeff Marquez, Mark Melancon, and Alan Horne are good prospects. Melancon could take over for Mo in a few years, while Marquez is projected as a solid bottom of the rotation player (#4 or so). Alan Horne is projected as a #3. Dellin Betances is a highly touted prospect in our farm system as well. He has been projected as more of a top of the rotation player. Andrew Brackman has very high potential. Best case scenario - Top of the rotation starter, Worst case scenario - Top reliever/closer. Humberto Sanchez could be a very good player, too, that is if he starts staying healthy. We also have a bunch of other players who could ultimately rise to the majors, and a few that have like Alberto Gonzalez, and Shelley Duncan.

    So, all in all, yeah I would say that the Yankees have more than just cash on the BoSox. Oh, and is it bad that I don't think that Ellsbury, Youk, and Lester are anything too special?

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    Re: Big Papi's big slump

    Quote Originally Posted by koolzach1 View Post
    Haha, ok, Sawk fan.

    Cano is better than any young talent that Sawx have. Phil Hughes is a projected #1, as is Chamberlain. Kennedy is a projected #3, but some think that he can sort of a Mike Mussina type. Melky has really improved this year, and I have no evidence to say that he is any worse, or any better than Ellsbury. Bret Gardner is basically an Ellsbury clone, but a slight notch down. Austin Jackson is a highly rated prospect, along with Jesus Montero (who has an 80/80 power right now according to scouts). We have Jose Tabata, also highly touted prospect. If you're gonna count Youk, I'm gonna count Wang (who is a year younger than Youk). Jeff Marquez, Mark Melancon, and Alan Horne are good prospects. Melancon could take over for Mo in a few years, while Marquez is projected as a solid bottom of the rotation player (#4 or so). Alan Horne is projected as a #3. Dellin Betances is a highly touted prospect in our farm system as well. He has been projected as more of a top of the rotation player. Andrew Brackman has very high potential. Best case scenario - Top of the rotation starter, Worst case scenario - Top reliever/closer. Humberto Sanchez could be a very good player, too, that is if he starts staying healthy. We also have a bunch of other players who could ultimately rise to the majors, and a few that have like Alberto Gonzalez, and Shelley Duncan.

    So, all in all, yeah I would say that the Yankees have more than just cash on the BoSox. Oh, and is it bad that I don't think that Ellsbury, Youk, and Lester are anything too special?
    Both of you are overrating your teams. Sure, Cano is amazing, but Philip Hughes doesn't have as much upside as he had a couple of years ago. You also stated at the end of you 1st paragraph "and a bunch of other players who could ultimately rise to the majors". Doesn't every team? Try to look at these players with unbiased views. Any body can state their strengths, there are weaknesses too.

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    Re: Big Papi's big slump

    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewOsborn View Post
    Both of you are overrating your teams. Sure, Cano is amazing, but Philip Hughes doesn't have as much upside as he had a couple of years ago. You also stated at the end of you 1st paragraph "and a bunch of other players who could ultimately rise to the majors". Doesn't every team? Try to look at these players with unbiased views. Any body can state their strengths, there are weaknesses too.
    Tell me who I am overrating, and we'll see if I am ultimately overrating the Yankee youth.

    As for Phil Hughes... WTF? Phil Hughes doesn't have as much upside as he had a few years ago? Seriously? Did you just say that? Last year he was the #1 prospect IN ALL OF BASEBALL! He is 21 years old... He has another few years to grow.

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    Re: Big Papi's big slump

    Phil Hughes was the #1 prospect last year. I am aware of that. Plenty of prospects don't pan out, regardless of prospect rank. he is good, I am not saying that he is not good , but people thought he was ready this season, he did very well in the minors last season, but when people start to hit him, he starts to get too aggressive, he overstrides and resorts to bad arm form. This causes his pitches to be flatter, and gets pelted. This happened his entire pro career so far, becoming sort of a habit. It's not unbreakable, but it won't be easy. And as his current numbers show, he hasn't broken it yet; 8.82 ERA, 0-3, .434 OBA, 2.14 WHIP, 5 ERs against the ORIOLES.

    You then continued to list every Yankee mnior leaguer with some prospect of being decent. Now for Red Sox ones: Jason Place, Will Middlebrooks, Ryan Dent, Lars Anderson, Daniel Bard, Oscar Tejada, Justin Anderson, Craig Hansen, Jed Lowrie, Josh Reddick, Dustin Richardson, Brandon Moss, Jay Johnson, and Jeff Corsaletti.

    I'd say both of these teams are close talent-wise and who is better is completely subjective, as long as your not just saying "because he is #1"

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    Re: Big Papi's big slump

    Quote Originally Posted by koolzach1 View Post
    Haha, ok, Sawk fan.

    Cano is better than any young talent that Sawx have. Phil Hughes is a projected #1, as is Chamberlain. Kennedy is a projected #3, but some think that he can sort of a Mike Mussina type. Melky has really improved this year, and I have no evidence to say that he is any worse, or any better than Ellsbury. Bret Gardner is basically an Ellsbury clone, but a slight notch down. Austin Jackson is a highly rated prospect, along with Jesus Montero (who has an 80/80 power right now according to scouts). We have Jose Tabata, also highly touted prospect. If you're gonna count Youk, I'm gonna count Wang (who is a year younger than Youk). Jeff Marquez, Mark Melancon, and Alan Horne are good prospects. Melancon could take over for Mo in a few years, while Marquez is projected as a solid bottom of the rotation player (#4 or so). Alan Horne is projected as a #3. Dellin Betances is a highly touted prospect in our farm system as well. He has been projected as more of a top of the rotation player. Andrew Brackman has very high potential. Best case scenario - Top of the rotation starter, Worst case scenario - Top reliever/closer. Humberto Sanchez could be a very good player, too, that is if he starts staying healthy. We also have a bunch of other players who could ultimately rise to the majors, and a few that have like Alberto Gonzalez, and Shelley Duncan.

    So, all in all, yeah I would say that the Yankees have more than just cash on the BoSox. Oh, and is it bad that I don't think that Ellsbury, Youk, and Lester are anything too special?
    This made me laugh

    Hughes wouldnt have so much hype if he wasn't a yankee...sure he was rated number 1 last year but thats because the yanks had no prospects better then him so he stood out. Anyone remember the last big prospects???
    Todd Van Poppel:
    40-52 5.58 ERA
    Some more examples of "star" prospects"
    Edwin Jackson, Juan Cruz, Jesse Fopper, Rick Ankiel(as a pitcher)

    Not saying hughes will turn out like these guys but there is a good chance he will

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    Re: Big Papi's big slump

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Sox Fan 734 View Post
    Hughes wouldnt have so much hype if he wasn't a yankee...sure he was rated number 1 last year but thats because the yanks had no prospects better then him so he stood out.
    He was among the top 5 prospects in ALL of baseball and that has nothing to do with him being on the Yankees and standing out.

    I agree with AndrewOsborn. The Red Sox fans in this thread are overrating their own prospects, and not rating the Yankees' guys high enough. The Yankee fans are overrating their own prospects, and not giving the Red Sox prospects enough credit. The fact of the matter is that the Red Sox and Yankees both have a lot of money, a lot of good prospects, and very good front offices.

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