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Thread: probing whether Clemens lied to Congress

  1. #16
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    Re: probing whether Clemens lied to Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonGM View Post
    Yes, but going after the users does nothing to get rid of the drugs. When you want to come off as some sort of anti-drug crusader, it does no good for the cause of stopping drugs if you do not go after the drugs themselves.
    if only it were that simple, as long as there is a demand or rather demand enough for a product someone will be willing to supply it. You have to go after both....
    Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are .

  2. #17
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    Re: probing whether Clemens lied to Congress

    My opinion.....Harsh...very harsh sentences for the suppliers.....10-20 years without parole.
    Reduced Sentences for the buyers/users if they turn on their sources 1-2 years no parole. If they don't turn 5 years no parole!

  3. #18
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    Re: probing whether Clemens lied to Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by RickD View Post
    My opinion.....Harsh...very harsh sentences for the suppliers.....10-20 years without parole.
    Reduced Sentences for the buyers/users if they turn on their sources 1-2 years no parole. If they don't turn 5 years no parole!
    exactly, you have to make it not worth while for the users or there will always be a supply....
    Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are .

  4. #19
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    Re: probing whether Clemens lied to Congress

    But I wouldn't pour all my resources into catching the users, while ignoring the suppliers. I wouldn't give the suppliers deals to give me the users.

  5. #20
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    Re: probing whether Clemens lied to Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by RickD View Post
    My opinion.....Harsh...very harsh sentences for the suppliers.....10-20 years without parole.
    Reduced Sentences for the buyers/users if they turn on their sources 1-2 years no parole. If they don't turn 5 years no parole!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wassit3 View Post
    exactly, you have to make it not worth while for the users or there will always be a supply....
    Almost 30 years of experience with this sort of thing shows just how ineffective it is.
    You insist that there is something a machine cannot do. If you will tell me precisely what it is that a machine cannot do, then I can always make a machine which will do just that! -J. von Neumann

  6. #21
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    Re: probing whether Clemens lied to Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by ohms_law View Post
    Almost 30 years of experience with this sort of thing shows just how ineffective it is.
    maybe it is because in the USA we are very very un-evenhanded with penalties for users and dealers. It very very much depends on how much money you have to defend yourself, the mood of the judge/jury, if sentences were stricter and mandatory then you might see some reductions as people realize that losing 30 years of your life for some pot is not worth it...
    Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are .

  7. #22
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    Re: probing whether Clemens lied to Congress

    More likely the prisons will just become even more overcrowded with non-violent offenders... who then learn all sorts of other **** that they could get away with and will try when they get out.

    I never understood the fascination people have with locking people up. We have more prisoners here in the US then anyone else in the world.
    You insist that there is something a machine cannot do. If you will tell me precisely what it is that a machine cannot do, then I can always make a machine which will do just that! -J. von Neumann

  8. #23
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    Re: probing whether Clemens lied to Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by ohms_law View Post
    I never understood the fascination people have with locking people up. We have more prisoners here in the US then anyone else in the world.
    And if I remember correctly, most of them were convicted of non-violent crimes (particularly, drugs).

  9. #24
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    Re: probing whether Clemens lied to Congress

    They should seriously go after the Big Fishes, and not the users or the distributors. If the makers of the drugs make it out of the country, you have to go after the fish who bring it in.

  10. #25
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    Re: probing whether Clemens lied to Congress

    In any circumstance, it is flat out ridiculous to cut deals with drug DEALERS like Radomski and McNamee in order to get information on baseball players.

  11. #26
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    Re: probing whether Clemens lied to Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by ohms_law View Post
    More likely the prisons will just become even more overcrowded with non-violent offenders... who then learn all sorts of other **** that they could get away with and will try when they get out.

    I never understood the fascination people have with locking people up. We have more prisoners here in the US then anyone else in the world.
    turue, why lock them up when we can just give em the old death penalty for drug use, aftrerall if they use enough they are going to kill themselves and possibly many others too along the way so why not just make drug use a death penalty without appeal offense, prison over crowding problem solved ( tongue planted firmly in cheek)
    Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are .

  12. #27
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    Re: probing whether Clemens lied to Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonGM View Post
    In any circumstance, it is flat out ridiculous to cut deals with drug DEALERS like Radomski and McNamee in order to get information on baseball players.
    I think they both, if we are going to have it be illegal, go to jail however I still think that unless you make it very not worthwhile for users and dealers you will always have some drug use. You might still regardless of what you do, there are too many millions to be made for some to not be tempted.
    Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are .

  13. #28
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    Re: probing whether Clemens lied to Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Wassit3 View Post
    I think they both, if we are going to have it be illegal, go to jail however I still think that unless you make it very not worthwhile for users and dealers you will always have some drug use. You might still regardless of what you do, there are too many millions to be made for some to not be tempted.
    You will always have drug use. There is no way to get rid of drugs. Personally, I believe drugs should be legalized. As it stands, if Congress wants to "help the children", though, imprisoning Roger Clemens by giving his dealer a deal to give him up does horseshit. If Congress really wanted to "save the kids" from the perils of steroids, which is the nonsense they spew to justify these hearings, than they should actually do something to help prevent steroids from getting into schools, and to actually educate kids on steroids as well. Throwing some rich guy that did it into jail does nothing at all.

  14. #29
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    Re: probing whether Clemens lied to Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonGM View Post
    You will always have drug use. There is no way to get rid of drugs. Personally, I believe drugs should be legalized. As it stands, if Congress wants to "help the children", though, imprisoning Roger Clemens by giving his dealer a deal to give him up does horseshit. If Congress really wanted to "save the kids" from the perils of steroids, which is the nonsense they spew to justify these hearings, than they should actually do something to help prevent steroids from getting into schools, and to actually educate kids on steroids as well. Throwing some rich guy that did it into jail does nothing at all.
    by drugs I am talking about PEDs to be clear, otherskinds of drugs are a different matter as far as I am concerned...
    Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are .

  15. #30
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    Re: probing whether Clemens lied to Congress

    Well, if we're limiting the discussion to PED's, then they shouldn't be in the criminal code at all. PED use isn't even in the same class as drugs such as cocaine and heroine.
    You insist that there is something a machine cannot do. If you will tell me precisely what it is that a machine cannot do, then I can always make a machine which will do just that! -J. von Neumann

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