Goose Gossage elected to HOF

[ohms_law]

Yea, Rice should get in. Blyleven, of course. Big Mac as well, but that's a whole different thread... (and one that we really don't need to re-hash again).

[Reade]

wtg Goose. I still love that stache.

Never realized he pitched so many innings, alittle over 1800 innings,thats twice as many innings as Mo Rivera. Now if we could only get Lee Smith in, I'll be happy.

[RickD]

I am still wishing Sparky Lyle will get elected by the Vet's committee.

[boomboom]

I cant believe Rice was like 15 votes short

What is soo amazing is that he was 15 votes short, or that he got that much support? His career is almost HOF worthy...and after 14 years on the ballot he falls 15 votes shy. That is a shame

[ohms_law]

Rather than rehash all of the previous discussion we had on Jim Rice, here's some of the "high points", from my perspective at least, that we had earlier:

Interesting. I'd be really interested in hearing the reasoning behind "I just think that Rice is the most problematic."

Personally, I'm a big Black Ink type of person. It's certainly not a foolproof, end all, be all measure by any means. However, it does provide a good unbiased starting point. All three are marginal (especially considering that they were all mainly DH's), and with more choices in the mix it wold likely be easy to overlook all of them. However, just between the three of them, Jim Rice leads by a country mile in Black Ink. Considering their whole work though, I'd have to give it to Rice. I mean sure, he played a couple fewer years then Evans. Evans was a bit more disciplined at the plate as well. You just can't ignore the difference in power (and not just home runs, either. total power) and Rice has a slight edge in contact as well.
The biggest things for me though are that Rice had more speed (doubles and triples), and most importantly he was much more consistent. His deltas (change in rate stats) are much smaller from year to year than Evans' are. You can't buy that consistency, and you can't teach it either. That's pure skill.

Jim Rice was also greatly consistent at making multiple outs with one swing

I don't dispute the importance of OBP, by any means. You know that.
However, I'll gladly accept a 10 or 20 point loss in OBP for almost 100 points in slugging any time. Especially when that slugging is primarily doubles and triples from a guy who seems to be able to put the ball in play where it needs to go. Not only that, but I'd never have to worry about Jim Rice's performance. The guy was obviously a workhorse with tons of natural talent. Just look at the consistency of all of his rate stats... the guy basically hit his career averages every single year that he played (with the obvious exceptions of '74 and '89). That's just awesome.

I wasn't referring to OBP.

I was referring to double plays, hence multiple outs with one swing.

OK, but he didn't hit into that many double plays. He consistently hit into double plays right around the 10% mark, which is about average overall.

Besides, like robin mentioned, he made up for it. He was hitting in the 4 hole for most of his career, after all.



meh.. this is more fun!

I'm not going to quote the whole thing, but I highly recommend considering my post here (from later on in the same thread): http://forum.sportsmogul.com/showpos...4&postcount=47
I thought it was a decent analysis, at least.

[Lakeman]

1. Admittedly, I'm a biased Mattingly fan, but I still can't get over that Kirby Puckett was a first ballotter and Don doesn't get more respect. Yeah, I hear the argument that Puckett had a more consistant career, but I don't follow. He only had four poor seasons. Honestly, I don't believe either should be in the Hall of Fame, I'm just amazed at the disparity. Alan Trammell got more votes than Mattingly???

2. If Gossage is in, Lee Smith more than deserves it.

3. At first, I was still surprised that Dawson hasn't gotten in yet, however, that OBP is a little weak. And only three seasons with more than 30 homeruns.

4. Jim Rice is a stronger candidate on that list than Gossage.

[HoustonGM]

1. Admittedly, I'm a biased Mattingly fan, but I still can't get over that Kirby Puckett was a first ballotter and Don doesn't get more respect. Yeah, I hear the argument that Puckett had a more consistant career, but I don't follow. He only had four poor seasons. Honestly, I don't believe either should be in the Hall of Fame, I'm just amazed at the disparity. Alan Trammell got more votes than Mattingly???

Trammell compares very favorably to most of the shortstops already in the Hall. I'm not sold on his candidacy due to his inconsistency from year to year, but he's a better candidate than Mattingly.

4. Jim Rice is a stronger candidate on that list than Gossage.

Not true. Gossage had a terrific peak as one of the best relievers ever. Rice had a very good, short peak.

[lkcostas]

Not true. Gossage had a terrific peak as one of the best relievers ever. Rice had a very good, short peak.

Gossage also had to spin his wheels for quite awhile on a very bad team (the 70's White Sox), they even used him as a starter one year! That certainly didn't help his statistics. He ran up some impressive stats once he got on good teams.

[michaelg123789]

Interesting.

[Wassit3]

McGwire snub is also a big one as well. He saved Baseball, who cares how he did it, but that with the 95' M's, the yankees rise to power in the mid-late 90's than the Sosa/McGwire Chase all saved baseball... They are cheering for him in 98' and that moment was one of the most special moments in the history of the game. McGwire saved baseball, he made fans come back to the park. His his power, he has the stats to go to the HOF. And he never tested positive for steriods....just sad.

he barely has 1600 hits and 1 lonely gold glove....

[boomboom]

he barely has 1600 hits and 1 lonely gold glove....

lol

[Wassit3]

lol

http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mcgwima01.shtml

[FRENCHREDSOX]

Actually Goosage's induction (with Sutter's & Ecks a few years back) leads me a BM question....shouldn't the BM HOF engine be reviewed too ??

I mean I have had numerous times an all time Saves leader with 600+ saves (let a lone 500) go into retirement without even a glimmer of chance of being inducted

[Kinker]

I think Dawson, and Jim Rice should both be going in this year along with Goose.

[QHowes]

Im still holding out for Shawon Dunston lol