For a lead role in a cage
Master of Ale!
I suspect HGH abuse is a much bigger issue in a sport like football, where sheer size can be a big advantage (I think quite a few of these massive linemen are or have been users).
o
Ya think?Originally Posted by Arctic Blast
It's incredible how much of a free pass the other professional American sports get when it comes to performance-enhancing drugs. Now, I don't mind that baseball is held to a higher standard, I just think it highlights the sheer hypocrisy of our society.
In football, you get caught doing drugs, serve your suspension, and then come back and get hailed as some sort of strange hero...or just, nobody cares at all...and that's with a friggen positive test. In baseball, one person says "He did steroids" and all of a sudden you're the anti-Christ (as long as you actually mattered and weren't just some bum)
Master of Ale!
Actually, the reasons are real simple...the NFL does a much better job of portraying itself in a good light. It's amazing the difference that's made when you have a competent commissioner who is sure of himself and able to speak clearly and decisively, rather than a guy who, too often, seems to be a bumbling halfwit, stumbling from one problem to another without actually saying or doing anything. The fact that there is more competitive balance in the NFL helps its' overall image, as well, as people seem to identify with it a little more. Sure, the Patriots dominate right now, but that's due to their long run of draft success, not because they simply buy every free agent out there...with the NFL system, they CAN'T buy every free agent out there. You could NEVER have a Green Bay Packers in baseball. And while that has nothing to do with performance enhancement, it does tend to cast a bit more light on the entire league when fans of two thirds of the teams don't have to come in to a season knowing for an absolute fact that their team has no hope of accomplishing anything that season.
o
Yeah, I get it. As a quote I mentioned in the Mitchell report thread from Will Carroll said...baseball is second to none in the testing portion, but is dead last in the public relations aspect.
Dynastarian
I agree with yankeehater on the relationship baseball has to America versus the other sports.
This reminds me of when New Coke came out. The idea behind New Coke was that it would be a brand that could compete with Pepsi, which was leading in sales at the time. A huge backlash came, because Coke might not have been as popular but it had more meaning. No one wanted people to mess with an "American tradition" like Coca-Cola. People were furious. It would be like changing the colors of the American flag.
So yes, football might be more popular than baseball, but baseball has more meaning to Americans -- and because it has more meaning, it's held to a higher standard. Perhaps unfairly, but you could think of it as an honor. "Yes, football is full of muscle-bound behemoths -- but who cares? Don't mess with baseball!"
--Pet
Hates Your Favorite Band
I agree with the points above - good stuff. You know what bothers me about the HGH and steroid issues - this is baseball. I mean, it's my favorite sport and I love it to death, and not to belittle it or anything - but this sport isn't exactly stressful. It isn't about having huge muscles and running for 3 hours straight or pushing other huge guys around; most of the players jog to catch fly balls, jog to 1st base on a grounder, jog over to collect a rolling hit in the outfield - heck, if baseball were any slower sometimes, you would have to call it farming.
There are exceptions, like catchers that suffer lots of impact on their knees, and pitchers that really throw hard and can damage/stress their arm, shoulder, back, etc. But most of the guys in baseball - im talking past the age of 27, at least - are in average shape, ranging from string beans to somewhat plump (pitchers especially - hello Boomer). If they get injured, they still get paid hugely, and get ample time to rest, relax, rehab, etc. Position players play for 3 hours roughly every day, and pitchers pitch a few innings now and then, or a start every 5 (or 6, or more) days. At BEST, half their time is spent doing any physical activity besides chewing.
I guess what I'm wondering is, where does the need for this perceived edge come from? I know its the majors, and I guess I'm happy that they display this desire to win and be the best, but...for crying out loud, it's baseball.
Dynastarian
Part of this need to keep an "edge" comes from the all-consuming need to remain on a major league roster.
A player in AAA earns $12,900/yr minimum and not much more than that. One might think that's nice pay for six months of work, but after one's baseball career is over, you basically have nothing. (You earn even less in the minors below AAA). A career minor leaguer will probably be out of baseball by his early thirties and have nothing to show for it, with only "baseball player" on his resume aside from seasonal work in the off-season. Pension? Fuggedaboudit.
However, in the majors, you start accruing pension benefits at 43 days in. If three years of your salary equal some minimum amount, and if you remain active for ten years, you can draw a maximum pension. I dont know what the minimum salary and maximum pension amounts are now, but the pension for 10 year vets maxed out at $160,000/yr -- in 2002. It's probably more now.
The more you stay in the majors, the bigger your pension. Minors = no pension. So aside from the $300K or so prorated you make at minimum salary in the major leagues, those pension benefits are absolutely worth having, even if you don't play 10 full years and only get a partial pension. It's the difference between living on the golf course and living at John's Tire and Auto, where you sell radials.
As for the players who don't have to worry about a demotion to the minors, the drive is simply to get even wealthier. (They have families as well, and why not send your three kids to Stanford instead of Eastern Kentucky?) Meet a man getting $10 million a year, and if you look hard enough, you'll find a man with a burning desire to make $20 million/year.
--Pet
Hates Your Favorite Band
Ah, certainly good info there, pet. Pension?? Ballplayers get a pension?? Holy ****. Why aren't they responsible for a 401k and savings like the rest of us? Who pays that pention, MLB as a whole? Seems odd. You figure if someone earns even just $1-$2mil over a few seasons, they could probably sock enough away, at least in commodities like housing and land...heck, A-Rod owns a Mercedes dealership AND a large section of slums! He'll be all set no matter what.
But I see what your saying about greed - I was perfectly satisfied with my last large bump in salary...until this one came along with $20k more. Now I couldn't imagine ever making more, or needing to...but if someone offers me $30k more, I will be listening...
o
Regarding HGH, I don't think that a lot of the players that took HGH (and not steroids) were necessarily looking for an edge. They were looking to heal faster - just like the guy that goes and takes cortisone shots. Now, yes, it was illegal, and they knew what they were doing was wrong, but that was the culture at the time. Players viewed HGH as a possible "miracle" drug that'll heal them up quickly. Of course, the story is different for steroids obviously, but for the majority of purely HGH-users, I don't think they were looking to get an "edge."
Registered User
I think there is a distinction between the HGH and steroids and that's been blurred.
As for other sports, specificially the NFL, you have to look at how they're viewed.
The NFL and football in general, is almost more about hype and myth than it is about substance. Whatthe NFL has done is branded itself. When you think NFL, you think American - Big, loud, rough, a man's sport.
The actual product itself is often less appealing. But it's almost become a part of our culture. If your a male in this country, you watch football. You order pizza, you drink beer, you have parties for the sport. Personally, I'm not a football fan and even I find myself getting dragged into it. Sometimes I'll even turn around and be like "What the **** am I doing?"
It's just the way the two sports are perceived and perception is reality.
o
Except if you're me! In which case, you just eat pizza and drink soda.
Registered User
yankee hater is right. The couple hundred grounders and the endless batting practice is what has to happen. To create as much automatism for a player's muscles and hand-eye-coordination as possible. To be sharp when most of the time is spent standing around is a unique requirement in the other big sports. The problem in this age of free agency and guerrilla arbitration is that a player's stats are used against him, with no mention of the little things to help a team win like cut-offs and smart baserunning. Better stats means better pay, which is the reason the players union has looked the other way. Everyone's baseline for salary goes up everytime a stupid contract like Gary Mathews Jr. shows up.
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