scanning the report currently...not reading too much of the actual infromation, just looking at the names.
....eric gagne, david justice, kevin brown....
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scanning the report currently...not reading too much of the actual infromation, just looking at the names.
....eric gagne, david justice, kevin brown....
Oh no, not him again
I've only had time for a quick scan through some of the report, but suffice to say that LoDuca's name shows up a lot in there. I always figured something was fishy about his power surge with the Dodgers; they apparently knew it too which is why they traded him even though he was one of the most popular Dodgers at the time.
Gagne is in there too. Can't say as I'm surprised.
o
I just downloaded the report from ESPN and I'm skipping it over now.
The names I see (NOTE: This isn't a list of players who were found out to be steroid users. These are players whose names I see in relation to performance-enhancing drugs in some way. I am just skimming the report)...
Jason Grimsley, Mark McGwire, Steve Bechler, Manny Alexander, Ken Caminiti, Jose Canseco, Lenny Dykstra, Wally Joyner, Derrick Turnbow, Barry Bonds, Rafael Palmeiro, Gary Sheffield, Sammy Sosa, Ricky Bones, Alex Cabrera, Juan Gonzalez, Rafael Palmeiro, Miguel Tejada, Larry Bigbie, David Segui, Paxton Crawford, Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, Armando Rios, Benito Santiago, Marvin Benard, Randy Velarde, Bobby Estalella, Chad Allen, Adam Piatt, Brian Roberts, Tim Laker, Josias Manzanillo, Todd Hundley, Jack Cust, Chris Donnels, Mark Carreon, Hal Morris, Matt Franco, Rondell White, Roger Clemens, Andy Pettite, Chuck Knoblauch, Gregg Zaun, David Justice, F.P. Santangelo, Glenallen Hill, Mo Vaughn, Denny Neagle, Ron Villone, Ryan Franklin, Todd Williams, Phill Hiatt, Todd Pratt, Kevin Young, Mike Lansing, Cody McKay, Kent Mercker, Jason Christiansen, Mike Stanton, Stephen Randolph, Jerry Hairston Jr., Paul Lo Duca, Adam Riggs, Bart Miadich, Fernando Vina, Kevin Brown, Eric Gagne, Mike Bell, Matt Herges, Gary Bennett Jr., Jim Parque, Brendan Donnelly, Jeff Williams, Howie Clark, Nook Logan, Mike Judd, Ricky Stone, Dan Naulty, Rick Ankiel, Paul Byrd, Jay Gibbons, Troy Glaus, Jose Guillen, Scott Schoeneweis, David Bell, Darren Holmes, John Rocker, Ismael Valdez, Steve Woodard, Matt Williams, Gary Matthews Jr.
Note: McGwire is only mentioned for his andro story. Sosa is only mentioned in that he refused to be interviewed.
So, basically, besides the usual suspescts, Roger Clemens, Miguel Tejada, Kevin Brown and Andy Pettite...nobody really important. Paul Lo Duca and Eric Gagne are the only ones I would say were "surprising."
Basically, I don't think this does much...This is definitely not a definitive list of who did and didn't do steroids. There are TONS more players who did things that aren't in the report. But, like this list shows, the majority of players that do steroids are borderline guys who use it to get major league action. The majority of the players aren't good players. There are some notable exceptions, but for the most part, it's mostly nobodies.
Furthermore, some of the players, the evidence against them is PURELY hearsay...like Brian Roberts.
o
Nope.Originally Posted by Coach Owens
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I actually was surprised to see Pettite on the list.
o
Roger Clemens and Andy Pettite aren't "jaw-droppers"?
Look at the list of players named. I hope you see that most of them aren't home run hitting "power guys." Being a power hitter is NOT AT ALL a reason to suspect steroid use. Frank Thomas, a huge guy and a great power hitter, has long been a vocal supporter of drug testing.
They CANNOT "go after" people just because they hit home runs. They can only "go after" players where there is at least some evidence of use.
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Bonds was vilified by the media and many fans in almost gleeful manner , long before it was discovered he lied.
So I can expect the same with Clemens ******** yes ?
There will be talk about *****, there will be hearings in the Senate in the House about banning his record, the fans and media will be bashing him relentlessly for months and months right ?
Jeremy Giambi should ask for his money back. Either that or he must have really sucked
o
The majority of players named sucked. Thats the thing. The people that stand to gain the most from steroid use are the sucky guys - because it'll get them into the bigs and earn them some extra money. The millionaire stars don't stand to gain much from it.Jeremy Giambi should ask for his money back. Either that or he must have really sucked
Patron Saint of Pitchers
Re: Mitchell report due today
"Gagne"! - A simon-pure Canadian?He's off our "All-Canadian" team (Dynasty forum), pronto!
"Whate'er should be our Zodiac's star
We all are born to make or mar.
To each is gi'en a bag of tools
Some mentors, and a set of rules:
And each must carve, ere life has flown,
A stumbling block, or a stepping-stone"
(Author unknown)
Generation 35.
"Spikes" The cleats on baseball boots
"Spikes" On which newspaper editors impale copy for future reference, or ultimate destruction.
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Nearly half of those players named are former all-stars.
On another note, after listening to Selig, i just loathe him more. When asked about Mitchell saying Selig is at least partially responsible, his response was nearly identical to McGwire's. "what happened in the past...blah blah blah...I want to look to the future...blah blah blah", and then says he will at least consider punishing some of the players (on a case by case basis) who were named...
o
I count around 30 of 90. But, being a "former All Star" does not mean you were a great player. Paul Byrd is a "Former All Star" - he made the All Star Team in 1999.
Of the named players, I see the following who can be called star players - McGwire, Canseco, Bonds, Palmeiro, Sheffield, Sosa, Gonzalez, Tejada, Giambi, Clemens, Pettite, Knoblauch, Vaughn, Brown, Gagne, Glaus.
And these named players are FAR from the only players who have taken steroids. Look at the list of positive tests and suspensions. A lot of guys have me saying 'Who?'
What do you want him to do? If they can't prove they did steroids, they can't do anything. A lot of the evidence is hearsay. How can you punish Brian Roberts because Larry Bigbie said he thinks Roberts said he tried steroids a couple times?On another note, after listening to Selig, i just loathe him more. When asked about Mitchell saying Selig is at least partially responsible, his response was nearly identical to McGwire's. "what happened in the past...blah blah blah...I want to look to the future...blah blah blah", and then says he will at least consider punishing some of the players (on a case by case basis) who were named...
Selig and Mitchell are right. They have to look at the future. What happened in the past happened. Everyone involved is at fault. The MLB allowed it to happen. They played a huge role in facilitating it. For the MLB to go back and suspend players who once maybe did steroids is hypocritical and wrong. Steroid use was extremely widespread, and the players named in the Mitchell report does not even scratch the surface of the players who have taken some performance-enhancing drug.
All they can do now is try to get the drugs out of the sport, and prevent players from doing it in the future. Players that are caught should be punished. Players that are implicated by hearsay should not. Unless there is proof of use at a time where a drug policy was in place, you can't punish the person.
How can you at all say that Selig saying he will consider punishing players on a case-by-case basis is wrong? How is that wrong? Each case IS different and MUST be treated differently. You can't just blanketly punish the players named, because they were all named based on very differing amounts of evidence. Each case is different and should be treated as such.
a quick list from yahoo:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slu...yhoo&type=lgns
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i'm not saying the players names were "great"...just from the list you provided a few posts earlier (not saying that is all-inclusive), a large number of them were all-stars. again, not saying they were great, but far from "suck" as well.
I don't want him (selig) or MLB to punish those players...my beef, which i didn't properly express, is that in my opinion he's talking out of both sides of his mouth..."well, whether i knew of anything back in the day doesn't really matter...players who cheated back in the day should be punished." I just don't care for the we'll blame them for the past, but don't blame me thing he is doing.
i agree with you...looking to the future appears to be the wisest choice of action, but when selig says he wants to look at each case individually and possibly punish players, it doesn't appear that he really wants to look forward.
o
A third of them, at one point, made an All Star team, and another third of them played relatively little in the majors. It's a mix of players, but most of them are not stars.
Furthermore, a lot of the one-time All Stars were likely helped by their steroid use. Players with semi-respectable careers may have only had those careers due to steroids. That's my point. The people that use them are the people that stand to gain the most - the bad players that can become below-average major leaguers...not the stars.
Selig always talks out of his ***. He wants to save face because he knows he played a large role in the widespread use of steroids.I don't want him (selig) or MLB to punish those players...my beef, which i didn't properly express, is that in my opinion he's talking out of both sides of his mouth..."well, whether i knew of anything back in the day doesn't really matter...players who cheated back in the day should be punished." I just don't care for the we'll blame them for the past, but don't blame me thing he is doing.
i agree with you...looking to the future appears to be the wisest choice of action, but when selig says he wants to look at each case individually and possibly punish players, it doesn't appear that he really wants to look forward.
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