Hank Steinbrenner fires back at Torre

[Wassit3]

The apple apparently doesn't fall far from the tree.

Where was Joe's career in '95 when my dad hired him? My dad was crucified for hiring him.

--Hank Steinbrenner
Hank Steinbrenner, who has begun to take control over the New York Yankees with brother Hal from their fiery father George, shot back at former manager Joe Torre's comment about the team's contract offer being an "insult."

"Where was Joe's career in '95 when my dad hired him?" Hank Steinbrenner told The New York Post. "My dad was crucified for hiring him.

"Let's not forget what my dad did in giving him that opportunity -- and the great team he was handed," Steinbrenner told the paper.

On Friday, Torre explained his reasoning for turning down the Yankees contract offer. The deal called for a one-year contract that included $3 million in incentives if the Yankees were to reach the 2008 World Series. Plus, if New York advanced to the Fall Classic, a second year would be added to the contract worth $8 million.

"I just felt the contract offer, the terms of the contract, were probably the thing I had the toughest time with -- the one year for one thing, the incentives for another thing," Torre said Friday. "I've been there 12 years and I didn't think motivation was needed."

"We knew exactly what was expected here," Torre added. "So, I just didn't think it was the right thing for me, I just didn't think it was the right thing for my players."

Hank Steinbrenner believed the Yankees' offer was fair and that Torre needed to accept some of the blame for the team's zero championships since 2000.

"You can't take credit for success when you're going good, and then not take at least some of the blame when things change," Steinbrenner told the paper. "I'm sorry he feels insulted, but that was not the intent."

Hank Steinbrenner said he was hoping Torre would agree to manage the Yankees for a 13th season.

"I sincerely wanted Joe to accept that offer," said Steinbrenner. "We all wanted him to accept it, probably me more than anybody else."

"You don't make an offer bluffing. What if he says yes?" he added. "I was hoping he'd say yes."

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/s...=ESPNHeadlines

[ohms_law]

Ah, and it begins!
Gotta love the NY media.

[Swampdog]

To an extent, I agree with Junior Steinbrenner ( and it pains me greatly to admit that). So many of you line up to heap praise on Torre for the 4 WS wins.....and then you claim that he isnt to blame for the lack of titles the past seven years. You cant have it both ways. Give him both...his share of credit (which I believe is minimal) for the success, and his share of blame for failure.

Again: He has had the best teams money can buy for 12 years. He won 4 championships, which I would say, should have been about what was expected. He was also being paid $7 million a year...more than any manager in history. The Steinbrenner clan evidently believe that he hasnt produced as expected the past 7 years, and thats their right. I will sum this up as follows:

1) Torre knew full well what he was getting into when the Yankees hired him. He had a mediocre manager with 3 previous teams, and appeared to be nothing special as a manager.

2) Torre is a nice guy, by all accounts. That doesnt make him a great manager. In my humble opinion, there exists zero evidence that he is a great manager. I think he's good, but thats as far as I'll go.

3) I get tired of the constant "Poor Joe" chirpings perpetuated by the media. Torre will be fine. Managers will get fired. Its not that big a deal.

[Swampdog]

Umm......let me clarify ... poor editing. Should read "He WAS a mediocre manager with 3 previous teams, and appeared to be nothing special as a manager."

[HoustonGM]

Good points.

Personally, I would not have fired Joe Torre because I do think he's a great fit for the Yankees. But also, I don't praise him because he won 4 World Series. That's a great accomplishment, but I agree with you, his impact was minimal. The players did it. And likewise, his impact on the losing is minimal.

[RickD]

I just thik it would have been better if they sat with Joe and told him straight up they did not want him back instead of what they did. No negotiation tells me they really didn't want him back despite what they say.

[Wassit3]

I just thik it would have been better if they sat with Joe and told him straight up they did not want him back instead of what they did. No negotiation tells me they really didn't want him back despite what they say.

exactly

[Arctic Blast]

Sorry, but I can't really take any criticism from Hank Steinbrenner in any way seriously. Who is he?! Some kid who's running daddy's baseball team...hasn't really done anything to EARN it, he was just handed the keys. Yeah, HE'S a guy whose baseball opinion should resonate.

[ohms_law]

lol

good point.

[FRENCHREDSOX]

Good points.

Personally, I would not have fired Joe Torre because I do think he's a great fit for the Yankees. But also, I don't praise him because he won 4 World Series. That's a great accomplishment, but I agree with you, his impact was minimal. The players did it. And likewise, his impact on the losing is minimal.

He was not fired - he did NOT accept the offer made - it was his choice.

But also, I don't praise him because he won 4 World Series. That's a great accomplishment, but I agree with you, his impact was minimal. The players did it. And likewise, his impact on the losing is minimal.

It will be interesting to see next year the "minimalist" impact of managers on baseball though,unlike you I believe that managers' have a large impact on the results of a game & thus the season.

[HoustonGM]

He was not fired - he did NOT accept the offer made - it was his choice.

I would have not lowballed him for the sole purpose of making him seem like the guy at fault. I would have resigned him. Whatever. You get the point.

It will be interesting to see next year the "minimalist" impact of managers on baseball though,unlike you I believe that managers' have a large impact on the results of a game & thus the season.

Unfortunately, if Rivera, Pettite, Posada, and A-Rod all leave, the Yankees are going to do worse, and than everybody's going to say "See! Joe Torre should've stayed! The Yankees suck without him!" - completely ignoring the fact that the Yankees no longer have the best player in the league, a great catcher, the greatest closer of all time, and a good pitcher.

If the Yankees undergo significant roster changes, there's no way to at all tell what Joe Torre's impact on winning/losing was. Even if they stay relatively the same, comparing win-loss record after next season to Torre's reign still says nothing. Jorge Posada is unlikely to repeat his career year. Other players will outperform expectations. Others will play worse than they did this year. All things unrelated to the manager.

[FRENCHREDSOX]

I would have not lowballed him for the sole purpose of making him seem like the guy at fault. I would have resigned him. Whatever. You get the point.

Yes I did get the point (that is why I -ed,btw) but the facts are 1) he was given an offer of 5 million for 1 year * & 2) he REFUSED ipso facto/thus he was not fired.

Unfortunately, if Rivera, Pettite, Posada, and A-Rod all leave, the Yankees are going to do worse, and than everybody's going to say "See! Joe Torre should've stayed! The Yankees suck without him!" - completely ignoring the fact that the Yankees no longer have the best player in the league, a great catcher, the greatest closer of all time, and a good pitcher.

If the Yankees undergo significant roster changes, there's no way to at all tell what Joe Torre's impact on winning/losing was. Even if they stay relatively the same, comparing win-loss record after next season to Torre's reign still says nothing. Jorge Posada is unlikely to repeat his career year. Other players will outperform expectations. Others will play worse than they did this year. All things unrelated to the manager.

This is all hypothetical & totally subjective AS OF TODAY.The point I made was in reply to the "minimalistic" view of the role of the manager made here:

. That's a great accomplishment, but I agree with you, his impact was minimal. The players did it. And likewise, his impact on the losing is minimal.

my reply:

It will be interesting to see next year the "minimalist" impact of managers on baseball though,unlike you I believe that managers' have a large impact on the results of a game & thus the season.

* & he would still have been the HIGHEST paid manager in Baseball

[RickD]

Well the impact Torre had came not just in coaching but in class. He was well liked by his plaers and that can't be duplicated. Losing Torre will cause a wave of changes and only time will tell if the Yanks made a bone-head decision which is what I believe they did.

[beerchaser]

I think the Yanks should have waited a month or so to see if cooler heads prevail, and if any minds change. They actually did that at least once before with Torre IIRC. But nobody's ever accused Steinbrenner of having too much patience.

[RickD]

Lol