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Thread: Wally Joyner

  1. #1
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    Wally Joyner

    His testimony about him, baseball and steroids.

    Joyner's Dilema
    by: Buster Onley

    Editor's Note: This story is a companion to "The Friend," Buster Olney's ESPN The Magazine piece in which Wally Joyner describes how he sought Ken Caminiti's help to acquire steroids. Joyner later discarded them after taking three pills in 10 days.

    There wasn't a question of whether steroids would help Wally Joyner's performance; he knew they would. He had seen it, with Jose Canseco and Rafael Palmeiro and others, who seemed to be working under different laws of nature. They all turned 30 at about the same time and while those guys got better and stronger, their bat speed increasing, Joyner felt worse, injuries nagging his body, sapping his ability.

    And Joyner had seen how steroids aided Ken Caminiti, his teammate of three seasons. Caminiti would get hurt and presto, he'd bounce back, while a simple muscle strain might nag Joyner for weeks. Caminiti didn't hide his secret from his friend; steroids will heal you, he had once explained to another teammate. They'll help you. They'll keep you in the lineup.

    Joyner was 36 years old in spring training of 1998, his instinct was that taking steroids was cheating, and yet he wanted to keep playing and keep up. He had stood at first base and seen players pass him, literally, suddenly stronger than he was, and Joyner knew there was a magic potion -- steroids.

    Joyner had once been on the cutting edge of baseball conditioning, diligently lifting weights in the mid-'80s, and had once been considered one of the best power-hitting first basemen in the game, slamming 22 homers in his rookie year of 1986, the same year that Canseco ripped 33 homers in his first full season.

    Joyner knew first-hand how strength could help. He had gone to his first spring training with the Angels and looked around for a weight set to lift. Gene Mauch walked through, looked at Joyner as he lifted and uttered the conventional wisdom of the time: "That's going to ruin your swing."

    It didn't. But like a lot of players of his era, Joyner found his production suddenly paling in comparison with some of the numbers being put up by other stars who had gotten noticeably larger, stronger. He didn't know, with 100 percent certainty, what was happening. But he knew.

    Joyner would have a couple of more seasons with more than 20 homers, but by the late '90s, 20-homer seasons had become routine for middle infielders, and the best first basemen were hitting upward of 35. Joyner had only 13 in 1997, and he looked at the bodies and knew intuitively that a lot of the players he competed against were using something that gave them an advantage.

    But the benefits of using steroids were tangible, Joyner was certain: It was if the users were swinging aluminum bats, the non-users were swinging wood bats. "I was slipping, and they were climbing," Joyner recalled. "I love the game, I loved having the uniform on. Everybody fights age and the decline that comes with it, and in the past, the way I corrected problems was staying and taking more batting practice, or staying longer in the weight room, and it wasn't working for me."

    Hard work wasn't the reason why peers like Canseco and others were getting better and better, Joyner believed; it was because of steroids. And because it wasn't against baseball rules and nobody seemed to be interested in addressing the performance enhancers, many players like Joyner -- players inclined to remain clean -- were left with a stark choice. Either take steroids and keep up, or fall behind and perhaps risk losing your job to those willing to juice up. He had seen how Caminiti and others had benefited from using them.

    And he wondered how steroids were impacting the game, changing lives.

    "Think about those Oakland teams," said Joyner now. "I can't pick people out and tell you exactly who was taking steroids, but they sure did look big when they came out of their clubhouse. It was like men playing against boys. With the physical differences between the players, it was like a pro team coming on the field and playing against high school seniors. When they pounded on pitchers, how did that affect the careers of those guys?"

    "Whose dreams were crushed because they didn't take steroids?"
    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/etick...oidsExc&num=21
    [IMG]http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u30/xplosiongurl/redsox.gif[/IMG]

  2. #2
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    Re: Wally Joyner

    And note he said:
    And because it wasn't against baseball rules and nobody seemed to be interested in addressing the performance enhancers
    so clearly the policy you pointed out on a previous thread shows it was not getting through to the players.....not their fault!

  3. #3
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    Re: Wally Joyner

    And again, Thats really not a good excuse.

    I was just pointing out the fact that they were against the rules.

    Try using that excuse when you break a law in court, I doubt you will get far with it.
    [IMG]http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u30/xplosiongurl/redsox.gif[/IMG]

  4. #4
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    Re: Wally Joyner

    Ah but the difference if I get charged with something and taken to court it was more than likely a known violation of the law. In many states there are active laws on the book against spitting on sidewalks, etc that stay on the books and are not enforced and most people don't even know exist.

  5. #5
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    Re: Wally Joyner

    Also, pointing out that "Joyner knew steroids would help his stats" is not evidence of how steroids affect stats.

  6. #6
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    Re: Wally Joyner

    I think it is evidence. Eye Witness accounts are evidence in a court of law, or do you live in some other world Im not aware of?

    Someone who had a birds eye view of Steroids and the way the game changed around him.

    Its clearly circumstancial evidence, but evidence non the less.
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  7. #7
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    Re: Wally Joyner

    In order to definitively show that steroids have an effect on numbers, you need to use numbers. We can't just take one old first basemen's word for it.

  8. #8
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    Re: Wally Joyner

    Here I learned this debating tactic in another thread by a very well respected poster of the Forum.

    Evidence is Evidence.
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  9. #9
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    Re: Wally Joyner

    What some guy says is not evidence of anything. What does it prove? That ONE guy THINKS steroids will help his stats.

    It is not evidence of what steroids do to stats.

  10. #10
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    Re: Wally Joyner

    Good thing you never got to write the laws in the criminal justice system.

    This is what he witnessed. Eye Witness testimony is evidence.

    I said its circumstancial. But it is still evidence.

    Evidence to what steroids do to the Stats of Players. They increase them.

    Evidence is Evidence.
    [IMG]http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u30/xplosiongurl/redsox.gif[/IMG]

  11. #11
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    Re: Wally Joyner

    Quote Originally Posted by DontTreadOnMe View Post
    Evidence to what steroids do to the Stats of Players. They increase them.
    How?

    What do they increase? By what percentage do they increase them?

    This isn't evidence of anything except the thoughts in Wally Joyner's head.

  12. #12
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    Re: Wally Joyner

    Well in less a true statistical study was done....taking one player having him hit for say a period of time and then giving him PED's and measuring those results while factoring in wind speed, pitch style, improved hand eye coordinations, etc it is hard to measure how steroids effect players.

  13. #13
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    Re: Wally Joyner

    Quote Originally Posted by RickD View Post
    Well in less a true statistical study was done....taking one player having him hit for say a period of time and then giving him PED's and measuring those results while factoring in wind speed, pitch style, improved hand eye coordinations, etc it is hard to measure how steroids effect players.
    I know. That's exactly my point. We do not, and will likely never know, what steroids do to statistics.

    The only reasonable way to do any sort of study on this is to take the group of admitted steroid users and those that tested positive, try to figure out WHEN they started taking the substances, and compare their stats pre-drug and post-drug.

  14. #14
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    Re: Wally Joyner

    Quote Originally Posted by DontTreadOnMe View Post
    Caminiti would get hurt and presto, he'd bounce back, while a simple muscle strain might nag Joyner for weeks. Caminiti didn't hide his secret from his friend; steroids will heal you, he had once explained to another teammate. They'll help you. They'll keep you in the lineup.
    This reinforces my comment in another threat about the hypocrisy. Steroids are used to help people with injuries, as well as significant swelling that can occur with diseases like arthritus, etc. So athletes can't take steroids, because it will help their numbers. Ok, when they're sick, no medicines either. Make em miss however many games it would take their bodies to "naturally" heal or kill the disease. Right???? After all, wonder what their career numbers would be if they couldn't take any drugs. Meanwhile the rest of us use those same drugs all the time. It's just so arbitrary to single out ONE drug or medical procedure and NOT scream about the others. Again, medical science is gonna change again, probably in your lifetimes. We gonna just stop playing baseball cause the new advances aren't "fair".

  15. #15
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    Re: Wally Joyner

    I've been given a steroid inhalor for my asthma so I am no longer allowed to participate in baseball Mogul 2008..... Too bad we did not have a BM 91.....It was a fun game while it lasted.

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