How do you figure? It has .13, 2.14 printed right on it?
How do you figure? It has .13, 2.14 printed right on it?
Registered OOTP User
well im not your math prof, but....thats the percentage of cases that should fall into a certain category, not the raw percentage needed to fall into that category.Originally Posted by nuzzy62
so...
the top 2% of scores should get an A
the next 13% should get a B
the next 70% should get a C
the next 13% should get a D
and the bottom 2% should get an F
but in 20 years of school, with 8 being college level, ive never met a prof that used a strict bell curve anyway. typically, the scores are too tightly grouped to make it work. you cant really give one 77 a B and another 77 a C
[I]"I think our lineup is better even though we lost Alfonso Soriano. With Guzman[/i] (!) [i]and Schneider, the way he is swinging this year, I think we'll score as many runs as last year."[/I]
--Nationals third baseman [B]Ryan Zimmerman[/B]
:eek:
I actually had two profs use it - both in one of those science courses with a mass amount of people — Needless to say if you showed up to class, you passed because it was those dummies who didn't drop the course that got the F's.
I squeaked out a B in one of them, but it certainly didn't make people study as the masses were happy to show up and get their Cs as they didn't have to try.
The top end students were a bit peeved - they studied like mad to try and get those As
E=I*R
psst, DH: Shea Hillenbrand went to the Giant's, not the Angels.
Village Idiot
Just to bring this back to the topic at hand...
Andre Dawson...
1977 Rookie of the Year
8 Gold Gloves
8 time All Star
1987 MVP, 2 2nd place MVP finishes
When he played he was one of three players to have 300 homers and 300 steals along with Bobby Bonds and Willie Mays. Now he is one of six...
Tough out? Sure he OBP was low...but he was a tough out...
Hall of Fame voters only need to talk to Dawson's former teammates to appreciate what he did. Listen to Shawon Dunston, who relayed this story in an interview in 2000:
"When you hit a home run off Nolan Ryan, he meets you at third base," Dunston said of the Hall of Fame pitcher who intimidated hitters. "But when Andre hit one [off Ryan], he stayed near the mound and waited for the ball. That impressed me a lot. That's respect."
Here is what HOF Ryne Sandberg said about him...
During Ryne Sandberg's induction speech at the National Baseball Hall of Fame in July 2005, he mentioned former teammates he respects because they played the game right. Andre Dawson was high on that list.
"No player in baseball history worked harder, suffered more or did it better than Andre Dawson," Sandberg said of the rifle-armed outfielder known as "The Hawk." "He's the best I've ever seen.
"I watched him win an MVP for a last-place team in 1987 [with the Cubs], and it was the most unbelievable thing I've ever seen in baseball," Sandberg said. "He did it the right way, the natural way, and he did it in the field and on the bases and in every way, and I hope he will stand up here someday."
Was he a tough out? In 1990 the Reds won the World Series and also that year they walked Andre Dawson 5 times INTENTIONALLY in a game May 22, 1990.
He has the most hits and extra base hits of anyone not in the HOF.
Was he one of the top 2 players at his position for a decade...yes....
He belongs in the Hall of Fame...
DaBruins 24 hour League -- Los Angeles Dodgers
Dabs is my hero too!
o
Rookie of the Year should not count in HOF discussions. Many players win ROTY's and then disappear, so it's nothing great.
8 Gold Gloves, fine, good defensive outfielder.
8 time All Star? Shouldn't count. Just a popularity contest. I was listening to something on ESPN Radio about this just yesterday, and the guy said that the one thing that just stuck the nail into the coffin with his thoughts of All Star Appearances being meaningless was when Luis Aparicio collected 75,000 all star votes despite having retired during spring training.
MVP...sure, he had some really good years.
Yeah. He was fast, and he had decent power.When he played he was one of three players to have 300 homers and 300 steals along with Bobby Bonds and Willie Mays. Now he is one of six...
That does not make any sense whatsoever. The reverse of OBP is "out percentage" basically. A low OBP means that he got out very often. Getting out very often means he was not a tough out.Tough out? Sure he OBP was low...but he was a tough out...
New Hall of Fame qualification: Ask player's former teammates of their thoughts. That's sure a fantastic way to decide who belongs in the Hall.Hall of Fame voters only need to talk to Dawson's former teammates to appreciate what he did.
Another new Hall of Fame qualifcation: Nolan Ryan has to respect you."When you hit a home run off Nolan Ryan, he meets you at third base," Dunston said of the Hall of Fame pitcher who intimidated hitters. "But when Andre hit one [off Ryan], he stayed near the mound and waited for the ball. That impressed me a lot. That's respect."
Two new ones here: Ryne Sandberg has to respect you. You must play the game right.During Ryne Sandberg's induction speech at the National Baseball Hall of Fame in July 2005, he mentioned former teammates he respects because they played the game right. Andre Dawson was high on that list.
Honestly, how many Hall of Famers DIDN'T play the game right? How many Major Leaguers didn't play the game right?
Some more: Work hard. Suffer. Do it better."No player in baseball history worked harder, suffered more or did it better than Andre Dawson," Sandberg said of the rifle-armed outfielder known as "The Hawk." "He's the best I've ever seen.
What? Seriously. How do you "win an MVP the right and natural way"? What does that even mean? Personally, I don't think he deserved the 1987 MVP. Sure, it was a fantastic year, but I mean...Jack Clark batted .286/.459/.597 with 35 HR, a full 160 points higher than Dawson in OPS. All Dawson did that year that's special is hit 49 home runs. He only stole 11 bases, so it's not like he had a 40-40 year or something. He had a measly .328 OBP. Adjusted league OBP that year for him was .344. Clark beat Dawson in every single category except doubles, HR, and RBI (due to less playing tme), triples, and batting average, by 1 point."I watched him win an MVP for a last-place team in 1987 [with the Cubs], and it was the most unbelievable thing I've ever seen in baseball," Sandberg said. "He did it the right way, the natural way, and he did it in the field and on the bases and in every way, and I hope he will stand up here someday."
Um, so? Intentionally walking somebody isn't always the best idea, and just because a team decided to do that to one player 5 times in a game does not mean that the player was a tough out. 1990 was one of Dawson's best years, and I don't feel like looking up how he did prior to May 22,1990, so he might've been really really hot. That doesn't say anything for his career as a whole.Was he a tough out? In 1990 the Reds won the World Series and also that year they walked Andre Dawson 5 times INTENTIONALLY in a game May 22, 1990.
You also have to see who was batting BEHIND Dawson in that game, because I'm sure there are players that you'd rather pitch to than Dawson, but there's players I'd rather pitch to than Cecil Fielder, so that doesn't mean anything when it comes to HoF discussions.
Sorry, but I despise this argument. If Dawson gets in the Hall, there's still going to be somebody with the most and extra base hits that isn't in the Hall. That's not a reason to let somebody in!He has the most hits and extra base hits of anyone not in the HOF.
Robin Yount played center for a good portion of the 1980's, and was arguably a better player. Kirby Puckett for a few years. Dale Murphy. Chili Davis..Was he one of the top 2 players at his position for a decade...yes....
I might be missing a few players because I don't know the entire decade of the 80's by heart. He certainly a great center fielder for a pretty long time, but...
He does not belong in the Hall of Fame.He belongs in the Hall of Fame...
So, because many players who win it are forgettable, the exceptions to the rule should be ignored? To me that makes it more exceptional. If 99 of 100 fail then that one who succeeds is outstanding.
But never mind that, here's the all time list. There are a LOT of great players on the rolls. ROY WINNERS
E=I*R
Although... Being a member of the 300/300 club is something special. I don't think that it means all that much in terms of really playing baseball (He's not Bobby Bonds or Willie Mays) but it's meaningful to us, the fans.
You insist that there is something a machine cannot do. If you will tell me precisely what it is that a machine cannot do, then I can always make a machine which will do just that! -J. von Neumann
Wow! just looked at the board, knowing that the Dodgers put up some great talent and have had a lot of ROY's but 15 of 59 is unbelievable! That's slightly better than one in four! They also tend to win 'em in bunches. five straight from '92-'96, four straight from '79-'82, and four of seven from '47 to '53.
You really want an answer to that?Honestly, how many Hall of Famers DIDN'T play the game right? How many Major Leaguers didn't play the game right?
New User
What I saw from the list is how far back you have to go to find an NL ROY who is in the Hall...all the way back to Johnny Bench in 1968. I think Piazza will eventually go in and some guy named Pujols might too.
But then you look at the A.L. side and it is full of HOF winners and will-bes. Ironically, the AL ROY is not a good Hall indicator before 1967 (Carew).
As to whether ROY should be a credential, it should if the subject is "fame". Such honors are how most players get famous. OTOH, it's an unsteady indicator for Hall-worthiness. It's just one more part of the debate.
Agreed. If it shows the beginning of a pattern of excellent performance, then it should be taken into account as well. You don't throw out Yaz's triple crown because it was a down year for production do you? No? Then why throw out another milestone?
o
Yes, it's a great award, but it doesn't push him over the hump of a non-Hofer to a Hofer. That's what i'm saying.
They wouldn't be in the Hall or in the majors if they didn't play baseball correctly. That's my point.You really want an answer to that?
Of course you don't throw out a triple crown - you look at it in comparison to the rest of the league, and his OPS+ of 191 that year shows out outrageously good that season was.
All I'm saying is that Dawson winning a ROY doesn't make him a Hall of Famer.
It also counts toward his possibility of becoming one.
New User
And I don't think anyone will argue that, winning a ROY alone makes *anyone* a Hall of Famer.
Anyone care to argue that Joe Charboneau deserves induction?
OTOH, you're cheerleading for inducting a guy who twice led the league in losses. I'll take a ROY over that.
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