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Thread: Payroll and Wins

  1. #1
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    Payroll and Wins

    There has been much talk lately with what the Yankees didn't do with $200 million or the Blue Jays $70 million payrolls.

    The Tigers and A's are averaging $85 million payrolls and the Mets are at about $100 million I think.

    Money doesn't buy rings anymore. (for the most part)

    I just started my latest Cubs campaign for 2006 and I got rid of everyone, I mean EVERYONE.

    Starting in 2006 my Chicago Cubs had a payroll of 9.7 million dollars. They were on fire for April and May then fizzled with a record of 65-97. Not bad for a bunch of prospects eh?

    The Yankees were vastly overrated coming into this postseason.

    As they say, hitting wins ball games but pitching wins Championships.

    And that's what the pinstripers need badly, pitching.

    They should get rid of Randy, not pick up Mussina's option and go crazy for the free agents coming onto the market soon.

    The Sultan

  2. #2
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    Re: Payroll and Wins

    The only problem is thre isn't much on the market this year. You have ZITO and thats about it for stars. And I honestly think Zito is a NL pitcher. He just walks too many guys. I mean Mark Prior im sure will be available but do u think they really want another *shudder* pavano. I mean Steve trachel is probably not gonna be resigned by the mets but the yanks need an ave. Wang could be a good #2 with the moose being a gret #3. All you need is 3 very good SP for the playoffs. lol they have 1 and he is NOT an ace.
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  3. #3
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    Re: Payroll and Wins

    well... ther is jason schmidt
    The Constitution was designed by the founders to save people from themselves. It never fails to amaze me how good of a job they did
    haveacigar
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  4. #4
    FRENCHREDSOX Guest

    Re: Payroll and Wins

    One name - Matsuzaka (guy will be devastating for at least 1 to 3 years )
    plus he is like 27 & has 5/6 years experience already at the highest "japanese" level
    compare him to Johjima,Ichiro & Matsui or pitcher wise Saito this year

  5. #5
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    Re: Payroll and Wins

    Quote Originally Posted by FRENCHREDSOX View Post
    One name - Matsuzaka (guy will be devastating for at least 1 to 3 years )
    plus he is like 27 & has 5/6 years experience already at the highest "japanese" level
    compare him to Johjima,Ichiro & Matsui or pitcher wise Saito this year
    lol which Matsiu... Kaz... I seem to also remember a guy names irrabu or somthing close... I'll believe they guys are good when they actually play over here.
    The Constitution was designed by the founders to save people from themselves. It never fails to amaze me how good of a job they did
    haveacigar
    My Finest work!!!
    Death don't want ya... But the Lotus do... so bring ya wicked shlt we gonna bring ours too!!!
    ><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸¸><((((º>
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  6. #6
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    Re: Payroll and Wins

    Hideki Irabu. Was good for one season with ny. He's a Fat Slob now.

  7. #7
    FRENCHREDSOX Guest

    Re: Payroll and Wins

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNamelessPoet View Post
    lol which Matsui... Kaz... I seem to also remember a guy names irrabu or somthing close... I'll believe they guys are good when they actually play over here.
    Kaz ended the season starting in Denver & I will take an outfield of Ichiro in Center & HIDEKI in Left & Taguchi as a back up


    Most Japanese players get to the US after 10 years of play so there "up side" is
    much more limited plus the difference in language,quality of play & general adaptation is difficult for most Japanese players;


    But in the last 5/6 years those who have come over in their prime or close to it have been good or above - look at Otsuka,the guys I mentioned but also Nomo,Sasaki etc)

    This guy is 27 & pitching like this imagine when he is at his peak - also he throws the infamous "gyro" which will catch more than a few hitters.Hits constantly mid to low 90's 4 pitch arsenal & CAN hit a 100mph

  8. #8
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    Re: Payroll and Wins

    My dream rotation for NYY currently

    '07
    1) Matz
    2) Wang
    3) Mussina
    4) Pavano
    5) RJ

    '08
    A mesh of Wang, Mussina, Clippard, Hughes, and Matz with Pavano is a REAL maybe.

  9. #9
    FRENCHREDSOX Guest

    Re: Payroll and Wins

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanji Watsuki View Post
    My dream rotation for NYY currently

    '07
    1) Matz
    2) Wang
    3) Mussina
    4) Pavano
    5) RJ

    '08
    A mesh of Wang, Mussina, Clippard, Hughes, and Matz with Pavano is a REAL maybe.
    Nice dream but will "moose" accept a pay cut ? Will "Big UNIT" be effective after his off-season surgery - Pavano,well he most probably stub a toe & be on the DL for 6 months.Look at Cashman to go after Schmidt & Matsuzaka in a big way.Also dont be surprised he sends a Big bat out West to get Santana(Ervin not Johan) - possibly also go after one of the Cubbies relievers (Howry or Eyre) for Melky,his stock will never be higher & the Cubbies need OF in a bad way


    by the way here is an alternative way of solving the Yankees problems - http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6048818

  10. #10
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    Re: Payroll and Wins

    Quote Originally Posted by FRENCHREDSOX View Post
    Nice dream but will "moose" accept a pay cut ? Will "Big UNIT" be effective after his off-season surgery - Pavano,well he most probably stub a toe & be on the DL for 6 months.Look at Cashman to go after Schmidt & Matsuzaka in a big way.Also dont be surprised he sends a Big bat out West to get Santana(Ervin not Johan) - possibly also go after one of the Cubbies relievers (Howry or Eyre) for Melky,his stock will never be higher & the Cubbies need OF in a bad way

    If he takes it like a man David Cone style maybe.
    I'm really expecting a 5th starter out of RJ.
    Pavano'll go down quickly and I expect to see a youngun come up OR Proctor starting as a last resort.
    I doubt Schmidt will reproduce his numbers in the AL AND he'll be locked up until he'ls old...
    Matsuzaka I agree.
    Ervin Santana is overrated, his ERA will be inflated in the AL East.
    The Melk Man must stay! I love his eye and his glove. I want to see Matsui move to first.


    by the way here is an alternative way of solving the Yankees problems - http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6048818
    >_>;;

  11. #11
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    Re: Payroll and Wins

    Quote Originally Posted by FOX
    1. Trade A-Rod

    He has to go, and teams will want him. He is one year removed from an MVP and near Gold Glove year, and besides his issues in the field, wasn't bad at the plate this season either. He is a franchise player in his prime who should bounce all the way back in a new, more laidback city.

    Exactly. He seemed great in his MVP NEW YORK YEAR...

    A-Rod is owed $27 million per season for 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010. Texas is paying $28 million of that, but that still leaves $20 million per season. While a few teams may be willing to pay that price for a player as good as A-Rod, the Yankees should kick in some cash to expand the pool and get back as much as they can.

    A-Rod is a STEAL at the price we have him at, which is 16mil by the way. 16mil superstar that may be the greatest bat of our generation? I'd take it.

    2. Trade Jason Giambi

    This will be the most challenging piece of the puzzle, but it can be done albeit painfully. Giambi has two years remaining on his contract, plus a buyout that would increase the total owed to $47 million. This is a constant headache for the team, and it needs to be removed. He could be a good fit for one of the California teams who need another bat.

    First off I'm not sure if any team would want to take Giambi without the Yankees eating out a huge amount of his contract. Giambi still is a fairly effective hitter and I likes the look of his OBA, but it ain't near his juicer days.

    3. Trade Johnny Damon

    Damon had a very good year at the plate for the Yankees. He played hurt and fit into the team seamlessly. You can not give the opposing team extra bases and expect to win close games all the time. Damon should be traded while his value is high. Lots of contending teams need an upgrade at CF and a leadoff guy.

    This is an interesting move I've never seen before. It'd give Melky Cabrera a chance to move into CF and I'd like to see it happen. The value on what we get back is the only deciding factor for me.

    4. Trade Jaret Wright and Kyle Farnsworth to NL teams

    Wright is a good guy who could thrive back in the NL, as he did with the Braves. The Yankees can pick up his option for $7 million or buy him out for $4 million. They should pick up the option, and send Wright and $3 million to an NL team who would get a very decent pitcher for one year at $4 million. Likewise, Farnsworth (2 years, $10.75 million remaining), would probably fare better back in the NL, maybe even closing for a small market team.

    Buyout Wright OR put him in the bullpen. Farnsworth should stay IMO but if we can get something back for him I'd have no problem with trading him and bringing up Colter Bean.

    5. Plan for little or no production from Randy Johnson and Carl Pavano

    Johnson (1 year, $16 million remaining), is untradeable due to requiring back surgery, as is Pavano (2 years, $21 million remaining) due to an injury suffered during a car accident he tried to conceal.

    I'm truely against getting any long term commitment. Take Mussina's ridiculous option unless he'll sign a 1 year contract. I'm expecting ONE GOOD YEAR out of Pavano, his contract year. Pavano is appearantly getting in shape and if we get ANY starts out of him in '07 I'd be happy.

    RJ looked effective after his last surgery, but he wasn't over 40. I'm still betting on at least a repeat performance out of the future HoFer.


    Now to put together a team for 2007.

    1. Sign Daisuke Matsuzaka

    Reports from Japan indicate that the 25-year old Matsuzaka might be the best pitcher outside of MLB right now. The Yankees have finally gotten over the Irabu fiasco and have first-hand knowledge of the success of Asian pitchers with Chien-Ming Wang taking over as the ace of the team. Matsuzaka will cost nothing but money, for which the Yankees should pay whatever is required to add the right-hander to their rotation.

    Agree'd.

    2. Promote Philip Hughes

    DISAGREED. Hughes needs more farm time but I do suggest a midseason callup with a full-time job for '08. He needs more innings. HOWEVER I do want him to get a lot of time with Guidry to take that slider from a situational pitch to a good one so he can have an arsenal of fastball, curve, change, and slider.

    3. Re-sign Mike Mussina at the right price

    Mussina came to the Yankees in 2001, figuring he would pick up several World Series rings as a cap to a successful career. Unfortunately that hasn't worked out, as the Yankees have yet to win a title with Mussina. He has never been the shutdown pitcher he was signed to be, but he has also been very consistent, and the least of the Yankees' problems when the ship has been going down. If Mussina wants to stay for reasonable money, he should be retained. If he thinks he is still an ace, he should be shown the door. He could also be the odd man out if the Yankees chose to sign two pitchers like Andy Pettitte and Mark Mulder.

    I agree.
    4. Sign Andy Pettitte and/or Mark Mulder

    The Yankees have shown that bringing pitchers from the NL to the AL is an exercise in futility. These two would be the exception. Pettitte was a key member of the Yankee championship teams and has repeatedly shown the ability to pitch in big games. More importantly, at 34 he can still pitch at a high level. The primary reason he left the team after the 2003 season was the Yankees' fear that he was hurt, which was borne out as he missed most of the 2004 season. If his good friend Roger Clemens retires, Pettitte could turn back to his first team for his final contract.

    ... Andy Pettitte is getting older and is coming from the NL. Had he been younger and I would have said yes. The only NL pitcher I would even consider this offseason MIGHT be Roger Clemens but I bet he'll retire.

    Mulder, 29, is coming off shoulder surgery and could likely be had for an incentive laden deal. Before he hurt his arm in 2004 and subsequently moved to the NL, he was one of the best pitchers in the AL, and also has recorded a 2.34 ERA in 7 postseason starts. The Yankees have not had an effective left-handed starter since David Wells left the team, and Mulder could be a key to getting tough wins in the playoffs.

    This is a risky move and he is making the NL to AL move. True, he has had past successes but his NL successes haven't been promising. If we get the old Mulder I'd have to say yes but it is a tossup.

    5. Sign Alfonso Soriano or Gary Matthews Jr. to play center field

    Soriano would be the ultimate high risk, high reward. He would love to return to the Yankees, a team he never wanted to leave. Would he be willing to play center to do so? Would he be willing to put in the work to become a great center fielder? Soriano was literally thrown into left field by the Nationals and by season's end was fielding the position very capably. Imagine what he could do with an entire offseason spent focused on learning a new position. The downside is the enormous contract demands and lots of strikeouts. Also, Soriano's atrocious postseason performance in 2003 is what got him shipped out of New York in the first place.

    No to Soriano. Do you know the talent we'd have to be putting up to get him?
    IF Damon is traded I'd like to see a Matsui (LF), Melky (CF), Abreu (RF) outfield.


    Matthews Jr. is a more moderate risk and probably the better play. He is a Gold-Glove caliber center fielder and had his best season at the plate in his free agent year. Still, even if he regresses to his career norms, (.263 average, 14 hr, 58 RBIs) he would still be a capable hitter and more importantly he would provide a huge boost to the outfield defense. Matthews Jr. can run and throw out runners. An outfield of Matsui, Matthews Jr. and Cabrera would be an enormous improvement defensively.

    DH Abreu? Sure, we'd have a defensive increase but an offensive decrease. It isn't easy to replace a .400 OBA guy like Giambi.

    6. Play the kids already

    The Yankees called up Robinson Cano in 2005 because they were forced to rectify the tremendous failure of the Tony Womack experiment. Cano proved he belonged, and in 2006 cemented his status by hitting .342. Instead of filling every spot in the lineup with stars, the Yankees need to keep some holes open for kids.

    Melky Cabrera should be the regular RF next season, with Bobby Abreu moving to DH.

    I don't agree here. Melky should play everyday but I think Abreu should stay put.

    Andy Phillips (not a kid) deserves a shot at 1B,

    Full-hearted agreement. This guy TORE UP AAA and had a few excellent months.

    Hughes in the rotation, and the team should bring up some prospects to fill those spots in the pen.

    Mid-season callup.

    Pitching prospects (Darrell Rasner/Jeff Karstens/TJ Beam/Sean Henn, etc …) should get a shot at those innings.

    Rasner and Karstens are far from prospects. This guy project to be 5th starters. If RJ fails then by all means play them but I don't want to see more than a 5th starter spot.

    7. Sign a good backup catcher

    Greg Zaun would be a good addition that would end the yearly carousel known as the Yankee backup catching corp.

    Greg Zaun should be able to command a starting deal. Sal Fasano is a decent BACKUP catcher that'll deliver some pop.

    These changes would cost a lot of money, but not by bringing in more stars. The 2007 Yankees don't need Barry Zito, Barry Bonds, Carlos Lee, etc.. They should use the enormous resources available to them to correct mistakes and start over.

    I don't want to see many if any FA signings this offseason. Bonds is the only guy I'd consider if we can get him at a reasonable price AND ship out Giambi but that seems unlikely. Bonds has a one sweet sweet walk %.

    Restock the farm system in as many deals as possible.

    I agree there.
    Post continued in next post.

  12. #12
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    Re: Payroll and Wins

    They make a few good points but I strongly disagree with a few parts. Hughes has been restricted to 80 pitches in a minor league game and you expect to see him in the rotation next year? Sort of move him into it with a possible midseason callup.

    I expect a fair performance out of RJ since he was pitching while partially injured all year.

    Also I had to cut the FOX article short due to character restrictions.

    My full '07 Yankees.

    Rotation:
    1) Wang
    2) Matz
    3) Mussina
    4) Ted Lilly
    5) RJ

    ALTERNATE IF RJ CAN'T PITCH

    1) Wang
    2) Matz
    3) Mussina
    4) Ted Lilly
    5) Rasner/Karstens

    Bullpen:
    Mariano Rivera
    Scott Proctor
    Brian Bruney
    TJ Beam
    Sean Henn
    Rasner/Karstens, whoever is left


    Lineup:
    1. CF Melky Cabrera
    2. 2B Robinson Cano
    3. SS Derek Jeter
    4. RF Bobby Abreu
    5. 3B A-Rod
    6. DH Giambi
    7. LF Matsui
    8. C Jorge Posada
    9. 1B Andy Phillips


    Bench:
    C Sal Fasaon
    UT Miguel Cairo
    UT Mark DeRosa
    UT Kevin Thompson

  13. #13
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    Re: Payroll and Wins

    I still think money wins championships, but that the Yankees managed to lose despite this.

  14. #14
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    Re: Payroll and Wins

    Uh, why is everyone so focused on the Yankees failing a crapshoot (don't forget, the Mets and their $100 mil+ payroll failed too) and 'overhauling' a team that won 97 games in the regular season? Shouldn't the Red Sox, the most expensive team ever not to make the Playoffs (and possibly one of the biggest disappointments since the 2001 Mets) be looked at long and hard?

    If any team needed a huge overhaul, it'd be the Red Sox my friends. Purge the rotation. Trade Schilling for some mid-level prospects before he implodes. Sign as many good relievers as you can. Get a real outfield, get some major-league ready insurance for Varitek (Kotteras was a good move, but he's nowhere near ready for 2007) in case he continues to bite it. Trade Manny NOW for top talent, eat the rest of his contract. Hope against hope that Hansen doesn't suddenly forgets how to pitch, and forget the playoffs for a while. You can hope again in 2009.

    There, I can be an armchair GM for one of my less-favorite teams too.

  15. #15
    FRENCHREDSOX Guest

    Re: Payroll and Wins

    Quote Originally Posted by Aisengard View Post
    Uh, why is everyone so focused on the Yankees failing a crapshoot
    Because they are the Yankees & they did have a 200 mill payroll & now havent won since 2000

    Quote Originally Posted by Aisengard View Post
    (don't forget, the Mets and their $100 mil+ payroll failed too) and 'overhauling' a team that won 97 games in the regular season?

    But not in post season which essentially is what it is all about as the Cardinals are showing


    Quote Originally Posted by Aisengard View Post
    Shouldn't the Red Sox, the most expensive team ever not to make the Playoffs (and possibly one of the biggest disappointments since the 2001 Mets) be looked at long and hard?

    I think they are doing so...


    Quote Originally Posted by Aisengard View Post
    If any team needed a huge overhaul, it'd be the Red Sox my friends. Purge the rotation. Trade Schilling for some mid-level prospects before he implodes.
    He is earning too many bucks & has promised to retire at the end of '07 = untradeable for equal returns



    Quote Originally Posted by Aisengard View Post
    Sign as many good relievers as you can.
    I think that is an aim but they still have some live arms there - Hansen,Delcarmen & others

    Quote Originally Posted by Aisengard View Post
    Get a real outfield, get some major-league ready insurance for Varitek (Kotteras was a good move, but he's nowhere near ready for 2007) in case he continues to bite it.
    Coco played most of the season hurt so in '07 he will be better defensively & offensively (unless he is traded or moves to LF),Manny is Manny & Nixon looks gone so Pena will be handed the role - his defence has been criticiezd but he is talented & should be able to handle the job more than adequately.

    For backing up Tek,well Epstein admitted that sending Bard to SDP was a "panic move" but the problem lies in the fact which Tek will be back the "poor hitting/injured" version (2006) or the stellar capitain & team leader (2005 & before)
    Quote Originally Posted by Aisengard View Post
    Trade Manny NOW for top talent, eat the rest of his contract.
    Yes agreed now tell me to whom & what do we get back ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Aisengard View Post
    Hope against hope that Hansen doesn't suddenly forgets how to pitch, and forget the playoffs for a while. You can hope again in 2009.
    The team lost out in '06 due to inconsitencies & especially injuries - its easy to condemn them after the events but this team LEAD the AL East till August.

    The rotation was decimated but '07 will have Schilling,Beckett,Wakefield & Papelbon not to shabby if they PITCH up to potential & the line up will still hit
    with Manny,Papi,Lowell & Youkilis so I think you are burying them a bit quick
    but there again you may be right we shall see in a year's time

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