7 years ago....was the last century *joke*Originally Posted by ohms_law
blah, blah, blah... DH bashing is sooo last century.
7 years ago....was the last century *joke*blah, blah, blah... DH bashing is sooo last century.
E=I*R
lol
But the Dh is here to stay as NO AL team has "complained" or asked for its removal.Funny thing is - is it cheaper "on average" to carry a DH(AL) or a "utility man"/extra pitcher(NL) ?
E=I*R
I think that the general consesus has always been that the DH costs money. It does add some offense though, which sells tickets, so I think that in the end the effect of the DH is a wash.
I don't remember seeing any actual studies on the subject though.
your correct though that noone in the AL, or even the NL for that matter complains about the DH. Most sportswriters don't complain about it these days either (which is where most of the critisism was from originally).
I've always been a proponent of the DH though. Not for the "added offense" aspect so much as the added strategic possibilities. When you can consider the batting lineup separately from your pitching, it opens up opportunities for managers.
Actually I am not so sure it does actually cost more - ok the Ortizes,Thomes' do play DH but in the NL they would simply play,badly it is true,1B but other teams fill out the position with their TOP reserve OF or INF where as the NL have to load up with "expensive" UTIL eg AndersonO/Lugo ETC
For a lead role in a cage
"It's 30 years down the DH highway, and this rule makes even less sense now than it did in 1973 — if that's possible. Here are five reasons baseball should abolish this abomination now :
1. Once, it was at least slightly intriguing to have two leagues playing the same sport using different rules. Now, with interleague play, it's not intriguing anymore. It's absurd.
2. Let's take that one step further. The DH rule may have cost the Giants the World Series. This was a team constructed around its bullpen, not its spare bench parts. So Dusty Baker essentially had no DH. In fact, his Game 7 DH — Pedro Feliz — was a guy who had made it through the first six games without an at-bat. No other sport would tolerate a situation this farcical.
3. The idea 30 years ago was that the DH would allow some beloved older hitters to extend their careers once they could no longer play the field. Whatever happened to that brainstorm? All these beloved older hitters DH'd Opening Day: Ken Harvey, Al Martin, Jeremy Giambi, Matt LeCroy and Josh Phelps. Face it: The DH is now just an excuse to be one-dimensional.
4. The only reason to have a DH rule is that fans allegedly like more offense. Obviously, DHs are better hitters than pitchers. But how much more offense does this rule really generate? The average AL team scored one more run every three games than the average NL team last year — and got one more hit every four games. So we're talking about two extra runs a week. That'll pack 'em in, all right.
5. Finally, the game is simply way more interesting without the DH than with it. Period. Ask any manager which is more strategically challenging — managing a game under NL rules or AL rules. It's no contest. It's baseball's cerebral side that separates it from all the other games ever invented. And the game is way more cerebral with no DH than with it. That's one thing that hasn't changed in 30 years — and never will.
(by Jayson Stark in ESPN.com on April 4, 2003)
"I grew up with the DH. I grew up with Hal McRae, the best DH (before Edgar Martinez, that is). And I can't stand watching pitchers hit. Or rather, trying to hit. Or trying to bunt. All that said, I'm starting to wonder if it's time, after 30 years, for the designated hitter to go the way of the Federal League, flannel uniforms, and multi-purpose stadiums. The DH was originally installed because American League owners thought attendance needed a boost — actually, what the American League needed was better owners — and they thought that more runs would lead to more fans. Did it work? Attendance went up 17 percent in 1973, the first season of the DH. This was proof enough for the owners, and so we've had the DH ever since. But there's a lot more to attendance than scoring tons of runs, as any number of National League teams have proved since 1973. And perhaps more to the point, nobody needs help scoring runs any more; there are plenty of hitters with power and plate discipline to go around, and there are plenty of teams that don't care much whether their sluggers can actually play in the field without embarrassing themselves. So while it's been fun, and we'll always remember Hal McRae and Edgar Martinez fondly, 30 years is long enough." - Rob Neyer on ESPN.com (April 4, 2003)
"Some changes in baseball — such as interleague play on a limited basis, or a thoughtful realignment — make perfect sense. Others — artificial turf, wild-card teams in the playoffs — make sense only to the baseball-impaired. Then, there is the designated hitter. It's an idea not without merit and one which used to make sense — for the American League, at least. In the early 1970s, baseball faced a crisis of popularity. The American League was especially hurting because of the disappearance of the Yankee dynasty and its slowness in signing black and Latin stars. That left the National League with a disproportionate number of the game's best and most exciting players. In addition, offense was at its lowest point in generations. In 1968, the entire American League hit .230. Carl Yastrzemski won the batting title with a .301 average. Some 20% of all games in the major leagues that year were shutouts. Clearly, something had to be done to juice the offense and to distinguish the American League from the National in an interesting way. The designated hitter was a logical response and it had some real benefits. It helped increase run production — the league batting average jumped from .239 in 1972 (pre-DH) to .259 in 1973 (first year of DH) — and it extended the careers of some popular players. Now, except for enabling veterans such as Minnesota's Paul Molitor to continue playing, none of the other conditions apply any more. Everyone knows the offense has gone through the roof in every measurable way. If anything, the balance needs to be tipped back in the other direction. With its new ballparks and exciting young stars, the American League no longer needs gimmickry to distinguish itself from the senior circuit. The disadvantages that were always present with the DH now tip the balance the other way. One of those disadvantages was highlighted recently by the ugly beanball incidents at Yankee Stadium and in Kansas City. Almost to a man, baseball people believe these situations would occur less frequently if the pitcher had to bat and face the prospect of retaliation. More importantly, the loss of strategy and the over-emphasis on power at the expense of some of the game's subtleties is simply too great a price to pay for the advantages of the DH. Beside, anyone who has so short an attention span and so little appreciation for baseball that he can't bear to watch a pitcher bat is probably beyond hope, anyway. The fact is the National League plays a more interesting game. The American League should try it, too." - Bob Costas in USA Today Baseball Weekly
"The DH has worn out its welcome in my book. In 1973, the new rule was embraced by the AL in an effort to generate more offense. Well, the last time I looked (11 teams scored seven or more runs on Wednesday alone), run production in the majors was doing just fine. Thanks to the DH, the Junior Circuit has adopted a swing-for-the-fences mentality which precludes half the country from enjoying that added dimension of the game called strategy. I'm not talking about calling a pitchout or if a pitcher should throw a fastball down 2-0 in the count and runners on base. I mean real decisions - only seen in the NL. The moves which have you arguing with your buddies the next day. Should the manager have ordered that sacrifice bunt? What was he thinking pulling that double-switch when there was still plenty of time to come back? To me, the only people who benefit from the DH are those 14 or so high-paid, aging superstars who grace us with their presence every couple of innings. Let's go back to playing the game the right way - sans DH." - Howard Kamen in USA Today (June 10, 1999)
E=I*R
ah, i remember reading that article when it was published. great read. I don't agree with him at all, but it's still a fun read. (the Jayson Stark one)
Registered OOTP User
yeah, what does everyone have against me anyway?blah, blah, blah... DH bashing is sooo last century.
lolyeah, what does everyone have against me anyway?
took me 5 minutes to understand ....
Looking at the numbers, the average DH cost an AL team about $5,200,000 for the season. That said, 8 teams actually paid less than that. The White Sox and Yankees skewed the number upwards with their $12M and $13M, respectively.
Those numbers reflect the average salary per game paid to the players the team started at DH times 162. Ask if you care for more clarification than that.Code:Name DH Full Season New York Yankees 12,976,147 Chicago White Sox 12,092,333 Boston Red Sox 6,674,183 LA Angels of Anaheim 5,780,745 Baltimore Orioles 5,595,000 Kansas City Royals 5,259,405 Texas Rangers 4,938,082 Detroit Tigers 3,813,471 Seattle Mariners 3,739,363 Toronto Blue Jays 3,676,098 Oakland Athletics 3,115,987 Minnesota Twins 2,315,255 Cleveland Indians 2,251,340 Tampa Bay Devil Rays 543,090 Total 5,197,893
All-Time Roster Cat
Making it up. Totally and completely.
I really, really hope(d) so.
E=I*R
From the page that TheJay linked in his sig:
That's awasome!Do you hear me, Angels/Astros/Cubs/Dodgers/Phillies/Padres/Giants? A-Rod is a clubhouse bogeyman with zero character, negative scrappiness, no pine tar on his helmet, a horrendous joy-fun quotient, and he refuses to eat dirt. He cannot join a team with too much talent because he will put them over the Overabundance of Talent Barrier and guys will just stop trying. He will certainly lower your team's sweatiness and you can forget about your all-important fear of failure. He might ruin your pitching like Jim Thome did with the White Sox. Be careful. Trust your gut. Whatever you do, do not trade two grinders and a firebrand for him. This has been John Rolfe, Expert Hindpsychologist.
...not that it has anything to do with the original topic here. I loved that article though.
Last edited by ohms_law; 10-13-2006 at 08:04 AM.
I like that site. They're usually pretty funny.
Ain't the beer cold, hon
Let's everybody line up against the DH, again. Yawn. Frankly, I like the AL having it and the NL not, because it makes for more variety watching the game. Maybe they should switch for a season and have the AL not use it and the NL use it.
Oh, and Jayson Stark shouldn't commentate on anything more complicated than toast. Everytime I read what that man has to say, I can feel brain cells dying, and I don't get any pleasure out of the act like I do with drinking beer.
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