Derek Jeter. Worst Hall Of Famer ever?

I know. He's only 30. But if he got run over by a bus today, Derek Jeter would still be enshrined in the Hall Of Fame.

I wonder,

When Derek Jeter is inducted into the Hall Of Fame, sometime around 2014, will he be the worst Hall Of Famer of the 21st Century?

I'm just sitting here looking at a SS averaging less than 15 homers per season and below average defensive skills. He does manage to get on base, but his career value (in 10 seasons) are probably less than Nomar (also 10 seasons).
Nomar's missed the better part of 3 years, and no one's talking about him for the Hall.

By the way, just to address the Jeter 'clutch' claim:

Nomar's lifetime post-season OPS: 1.016
Jeter: .836 (not including 2005)

Clay

if you look at jeter this year...he is clutch, i hate the yankees as much as anybody...but i dont need a red sox fan to tell me how bad he is ;)

Jeter, wouldnt get elected...but he wouldnt be forgotten....he will end up someday because he is the leader of the yankees, and he has won championships....nomar has none.

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Originally Posted by boomboom

if you look at jeter this year...he is clutch, i hate the yankees as much as anybody...but i dont need a red sox fan to tell me how bad he is ;)

Jeter, wouldnt get elected...but he wouldnt be forgotten....he will end up someday because he is the leader of the yankees, and he has won championships....nomar has none.

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Out of curiosity, what does this term 'clutch' mean?

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Originally Posted by Lunch

Out of curiosity, what does this term 'clutch' mean?

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Able to come through when it matters most. For example, in the postseason, or with runners in scoring position, stuff like that.

It all depends on what Jeter does the rest of his career, I think. In Mogul, I've had him get up to over 3,000 hits. If he does that in real life, he should make the hall.

I don't think he'll play old enough to put up very good lifetime numbers. He's making too much on the yankees and I don;t think living in NY can possible help his longevity.

You sure Phil "scooter" Rizzuto isn't the worst? From all accounts that I've read, he only got in when he finally had enough friends (and relentless stumping by Yogi Berra) on the veterans comittee to get the votes. I think that if Jeter had been the Royals SS all these years, he'd be regarded as the good player that he is, but certainly not a Hall of Fame caliber SS. How about Nomar as a Yankee? He'd be GOD right now. You couldn't turn on the TV or read a publication without seeing his mug somewhere. Being a good to great (but not Hall great) player on the Yankees definately increases your chances of being enshrined.

Whats wrong with New York Yankees, I follow them. Maybe you don't like them because they got lots of cash to spend.
Their big problem is never have very good consistent pitchers
As for Derek Jeter, I think his main skill is in leading the team as captain.
How many captains have won as many titles as Jeter?

Bill Seiko

I'm a Red Sox fan. They also have buckets of cash to spend. Boston's main problem has always been a combination of bad owners and equally poor mgmt. They passed on Jackie Robinson and Willie Mays for god's sake! If that aint bad managing then I don't know what is. As far a being a good team captain goes, so what? There are 29 other team captains (although not all officially) most of whom are at least as good. They wouldn't be the captains if they weren't. Jeter isn't in the hall without a Yankee suit. Same with Nomar. No Boston, no hall consideration (considering his numbers since his surgeries.).

Take a guy like Carlos Delgado (I know he isn't a SS). He always has 100 Rbis and 30 home runs for like 9 seasons. I never hear anyone talk about hall of fame for him.

I think that as a first baseman he's going to have to get near 500 HR before anyone starts talking about that. First basemen and left fielders don't get no respect.

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Originally Posted by robinhoodnik

I think that as a first baseman he's going to have to get near 500 HR before anyone starts talking about that. First basemen and left fielders don't get no respect.

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You have to be a lot better to make it into the HOF in those positions because of the history of great players there.

I think that being a key part of all those world series, and racking up hits the way Jeter has, he is worthy of the hall. Remeber that very few SS's have hit as well as he has over a career. His overall game is decent, so I don't see that he isn't 'worthy' per say. Off course, this is assuming that he will continue this pace for about 5-6 years, which would give him about 3000 hits. As for Nomar, his injuries have robbed him of his once hall worthy credentials. Jeter could be viewed as a better version of Jeff Kent, since Kent is also just OK defensively, but supremely skilled offensively for his position. If Kent was a 1B, as he should've been, he'd be good, but not hall worthy. Yet by playing 2B all those years, he might just get in.

Now, Delgado isn't going to the hall. I'm a Jays fan, and I must agree that if he doesn't reach 500, then there's no way. I think Fred McGriff is a good gauge for hitters shy of 500 HRs, for I doubt he'll make the hall.

I think I once had a thread on who people you'd want to see in the hall, and I'd love to see more people respond to that.

There is no way D.J. will be in the hall of fame period. He is a great player but he doesn't have the numbers to go to the hall of fame!

There's no way Jeter doesn't make the Hall of Fame. He's a serviceable fielder and a career .314 hitter. If he plays just five more years he'll reach 1,500 runs, probably 1,000 RBI's, and if he plays a little longer than that, 3,000 hits. If you compare him to current Hall of Famers over 10 years, he matches up very well. For example, Roy Campanella. Jeter bats 60 points higher, has more RBI's, and nearly twice as many runs. And that's not even counting postseason stats. The only thing he has to worry about is the devaluing of offensive stats over the years.
As for the worst Hall of Famer ever, it has to be Joe Tinker, as much as it pains me to say it.

Campanella is a ridiculous comparison. (1) He was a catcher. (2) He was the gold standard at his position. (3) His stats were compiled in only 10 seasons (he was left a parapalegic in an auto accident. The only reason he stopped playing when he did.) (4) Jeter's fielding % has only once topped Roy's worst %. Jeter's best so far in his career is .986%, Roy's lowest % was .985% 3 differsent times. He matched .986% once, and had a career .988%. Jeter has averaged .975% so far with a low point of .961% in 2000. Here are the links to their stats on MLB.com http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/...tor=campanella The first is Campanella's the following link is for Jeter.http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/...er&print=true#

I was comparing their hitting stats. Obviously there's no way to compare their fielding. It was more to show that you don't have to be a great hitter AND fielder to make the Hall of Fame, since one of the above-knocks on Jeter was his fielding.

thou everybody will agree jeter isnt the best fielder, he has won a gold glove.

Unfortunately, the awards are more a popularity contest than a reflection of actual ability.

Here's the deal in 2004. Three SS's were better than Jeter statistically. Eckstienwith a .988 and 6 errors, Christian Guzman with a .983 and 12 errors, and Omar Vizquel with a .982 and 11 errors. Jeter got the Gold Glove with a .981 % and 13 errors. Here's a link for the 2004 fielding stats. I don't care about intangibles either, the biggest intangible here is a Yankee uniform in my opinion.http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/...ortByStat=FPCT

Yeah, it is a bit more of a popularity contest than it ought to be, just like the All-Star games in all three major sports. But the fact is, he's a .314 hitter, and averages over 100 runs a season and 69 RBI's a year. If he retired NOW, no, he shouldn't make it, but five years down the road (when he approaches 3,000 hits, 1,500-1,600 runs, and 300 steals), assuming he doesn't have an epic meltdown or something, I fail to see how he doesn't get in eventually.
Certainly not first ballot. Maybe not for a long time. After all, first and second hitters are really underappreciated, unless you're talking about absolutely ridiculous players like Rickey Henderson. So I think it will be nice for a contact hitter to get in with maybe less than 250 career homers and barely 1,000 RBI's. The ability to get on base and score runs has apparently been forgotten about next to someone hitting 60 homers every season. But then, I'd rather see a walk, steal, sac bunt, and a sac fly to drive in a run then a 500 foot solo bomb, so I'm probably biased a little towards players who don't have power.

I agree on the aspect of power being overemphasized in Hall consideration. I also think that Jeter should get in as long as he gets the numbers elsewhere. I do not however like the fact that just being on the Yankees skews the voting so much in favor of a player. The Rizzuto example I threw out there a while ago wasn't meant to be anti-Yankee. It does show that it's easier to get in if you are a Yankee. Scooter had a .273 AVG., 1588 HITS, 239 doubles, 62 triples, 38 homeruns and 149 sb in 5816 AB. He fielded .968%, 263 errors, with 3220 po, 4666 A, in 8149 TC. Lets compare the Red Sox best known SS of that era. He played approximately 50% of his career at short so I guess that it's a pretty good comparison. Johnny Pesky (who I don't think should be in the Hall by the way, just here as a comparison.) hit .307, 1455 hits, 226 doubles, 50 triples, 17 HR and 53 sb in 4745 AB. He fielded .966 (combined between 3b and ss mostly), 178 errors, 1987 po, 3114 A, in 5279 TC. They are very comparable players who lost equal time in WW II. The difference is the uniform they wore. If they had each played on the others team Pesky would be in the hall and Rizzuto would be out. I also think that Pesky would have had far better career numbers had he played in New York rather than Boston. I also believe that Rizzuto would have performed at a lower level had he been in Boston. Just making the case that the uniform matters a lot in hall voting.

why do players have to hit 500 home runs. There are no rules on what people are eligable. they should look at who was a great ball player. not just stats but leadership and HEART

Okay then, let's put together a petition for Johnny Pesky. He's still a uniformed member of the Red Sox organization. If that isn't heart I don't know what is. How about Dave Kingman? his average sucked but he hit it and it was gone. If it wasn't for collusion on the part of MLB (A case he won in court) he'd have made it in. Edgar Martinez? probably not going unless it's via veterans commitee but he had heart. Much as it pains me to admit it Don Mattingly would have been in had it not been for injuries ( which is what bothers me about Puckett getting in. He may not have been a lock if he'd kept on playing, who knows?). Joe Jackson? he didn't play that series like he was trying to throw it. He actually tried to give the money to Comisky but was brushed off. Pete Rose? He played EVERY game like it was the last game of his career. He's out for what he did after he finished playing. Where's the justice in that? Jeter should NOT get in because he was the head Yankee. He should NOT get in because he had heart. He should get in only if he winds up as one of the best ever. That is what the hall was meant to be. It was not supposed to be for good players, it was not intended for the most popular players, it was reserved for the great ones.

I'd have to say along with Kingman you gotta go with Bill Mazeroski as worst hall of famer ever.... One swing got him in there.

But defensively he was regarded as the best second baseman ever. Ozzie Smith wasn't exactly known for his bat either but he got in on the first ballot. I think that there should be a designation or special consideration for great fielders.