Blame the catcher for a home run?

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Originally Posted by dickay

as a former catcher myself collegiately, the pitcher always has the final say and i've never seen one to not accept that responsibility after giving up a dinger. the myth that bull durham created (don't shake me off meat) is something i've never seen. any catcher i've ever talked to collegiately at least has never had the final say on what is thrown and i'd seriously doubt the catcher gets more power in the professional game. Even Varitek, one of the most senior catchers and most respected for his gameplan is shook off all the time.

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I'm not saying that the pitcher doesn't have the final say.

I'm also not saying that in BM the catcher's handling rating should be responsible for home runs given up.

I'm saying that, in reality, baseball is a much more complex strategical game than it appears.

The approach that a team (and specific pitcher) takes in pitching a hitter plays a role as well as that of the pitcher's ability and execution of the pitch.

Ok, Clay I know you are looking for a programming answer. A reliable, good catcher should be blamed almost 0%. A young catcher even with 3 veterans will screw up often and about 10%.

That is probably one of the hardest intrinsics of the game but maybe put an experience scale separate of offensive stats. IE, lets take a new uber catcher who will hit 10 HRs, 66 RBIs, and have super defense all at the age of 21. His arm is so strong he can throw out a man off base at 2nd. Now put 4 veterans pitching to him and he doesnt have a clue till at least age 25. This is Pudge Rod and he has even said 27 y/o. Tuff one to program.

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Originally Posted by filihok

I'm not saying that the pitcher doesn't have the final say.

I'm also not saying that in BM the catcher's handling rating should be responsible for home runs given up.

I'm saying that, in reality, baseball is a much more complex strategical game than it appears.

The approach that a team (and specific pitcher) takes in pitching a hitter plays a role as well as that of the pitcher's ability and execution of the pitch.

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i agree about the approach and the catcher is involved in developing a plan. the pitcher may also agree with the catchers call and the catcher can have a large part in "winning" the game with a good strategy of pitch calls. The question was though, how much blame does the catcher get....and everything i've ever seen has been that the pitcher always has the final say in what pitch he throws and always accepts the blame. So while a catcher can win a game by calling the right pitches, he can never lose the game as the pitcher has to make those pitches and prohibit contact or shake the catcher off and do his thing...and again make those pitches and prohibit contact.

I should be a catcher...all the credit and none of the blame. Good deal.

The pitcher may well accept the blame. I wasn't reading the word 'blame' as blame, but more as responsibility. The pitcher, the catcher, the pitching coach, the manager, the scouts all share responsibility for the results. And sometimes a hitter just hits a damn good pitch...

I voted 2% based solely on Crash Davis' antics in Bull Durham. Don't ever shake off your veteran catcher when you're throwing a 2 hit shutout in the 9th.