http://forum.sportsmogul.com/showthr...558#post127558
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That's why I didn't buy FM03. That and the fact that it was the same game as the first one.
I doubt they'd do the same thing with Baseball Mogul 2004 as this game is their bread and butter. But that whole situation is just not right.
Yah, this is just stupid now.
I defended them for a couple months, but no more. Football season has been over with for a month, the game has been out for six months...completely indefensable. First off, why would you put out a game with so many bugs? Then, when it's released and a ton of bugs are found, not even work at getting a patch out. They released those two 'unofficial' patches, but what about those that bought with the softwrap ****?
If these same problems arise with BBM2k4, Sport Mogul has lost my business for good. A company is suppose to stand by their product, but I haven't seen anyone of Sports Mogul say anything in this thread or in the past few weeks for that matter.
I may be wrong about this, but I think FM2k3 was nothing but medicore-at-best product that used a solid company name to make an extra buck. My opinion though, I'm prolly wrong.
andy...medicore is giving it too much credit. I worked with this game for about 50 hours making rosters for them...50 hours is probably longer than the developer worked on it. Man I have always been supoortive of Sportsmogul and BM(I bough 2k3) and FM (I bought the original and the downgrade-FB2k3) but I agree this is ridiculous. After being at a board lately for Tournament Dreams College basketball where the developer of the game, Arlie Rahn answers nearly every single question that a person asks immediately and still gets out patches out the yin yang... It's hard to see why I would come back to Sportsmogul. The reason I posted it here is so that everyone could see this...cause most people don't go to Football Mogul's forum.
I doubt any of FBM2K3's problems will creep into BBM2K4. For one thing, Ian has already established that 2K4 will have nothing to do with softwrap.
jeff thats really not the point
I am not going to support a company that does this to their customers...any customers. even just customers of football.
I can't say anything specific, but there's more to it than what you see - this isn't how they treat customers.
I could be wrong but it looks like Tom is implying, "There's just no pleasing some people."
I like spelling things out. They are still selling this game. How can they do this? How many people on that board in Football Mogul are praising the game? Not one. It's not about pleasing some people, its about pleasing ANY one.
There isn't any defending it any more. 1.) They are still selling the game, 2.) There hasn't even been an unofficial release in weeks, 3.) We haven't even had an update from ANYONE in weeks.
When it was first released it was "it's coming, it's coming"...now there is no news on it.
What do you guys think about the new features for Baseball Mogul 2k4? Seems like almost the same game also, eh? Just wondering. I'm not sopposed to be on these boards, but hey, I like Mogul as much as the next guy.
Will
www.fortunecity.com/olympia/greene/32
William I was thinking the same thing.
If what I'm fearing is true (Mogul04 is almost the same as Mogul03) then I think we all can have a NEW reason to hate Football Mogul. What reason is that? They spent time making this **** game when they could have been improving their main game.
I can understand having a bad year as any kind of business, especially a small business with the economy and market the way it is. But, why did they put out a **** game like this? You can't blame it on the economy or having a bad year. That has NOTHING to do with programming. My point is proven yet again...FM2k3 was all about the money.
As I said, there is much more as to why Sports Mogul seemingly gave up on this game. From what I remember, it was a big rush to get the game released before the NFL season so it would be in stores, and then I believe there were some financing/publishing issues, all on top of the Softwrap problems, that created a problem. I'm not 100% sure what happened, but there's more to it than what you see. I think it's more of the opposite of what you're saying - because they didn't get the money from sales of the game, they couldn't adequately support the game with patches, etc. What I'm saying isn't gospel though, but from what I heard from James in the fall, there was more to it than what seems to be the case.
Also, remember, the folks that produce Tournament Dreams, etc. are a much larger company with more programmers than Sports Mogul is. I've been excited about their new game Inside the Park baseball, but they've delayed the release date so many times that i'm not sure if it will be such a unique game when it is finally released. I think they originally had planned a release last summer, then delayed it to the fall, and now delayed it until this spring. Apparently they do not have to work to meet publishers' deadlines like Sports Mogul does - besides, since they are larger, they have other games to release that can support development financially. Sports Mogul can't just put off the release of a game for a year, as they would have no real income for that year to support the development of the game other than BBMO.
Not the point Takaplan. If they weren't ready and they needed money then they should have taken out a loan. Especially since they kept selling the game with soooo many problems. Even with the last patch (the only one) it still has numerious problems.
You open up the source code in Visual C++ (which is what they use, I assume) and edit the code that is buggy...upload it to the server...post it in the forum.
How much money does that cost again?
Dude they arent working on any fixes for Football Mogul. Thats what were talking about...not Baseball Mogul. Though Football Mogul has probably a 100 bugs it has one patch that fixes 15 02 20 bugs. It has been out for about 6 months. Baseball Mogul has been out for a week and has 2 patches already....hmmmmm. Ease up??? Why? They aren't listening anyway.
That's my point. They keep saying money constraints are keeping the game from being updated...I was saying "how much money does putting out an update cost".
Alright, let me try again. Clearly I did not get my point across the first time.
Sports Mogul was ripped off by the "publisher" of Football Mogul. The publisher sold the game, pocketed the money, and left, never bothering to give Sports Mogul what they were owed. They were scammed.
Again, let me try to explain why they can't drop everything and patch this game first. Since they did not get paid for Football Mogul and all the sales, they do not have the cash flow to pay their salaries and the necessary expenses while they patch a game that they were not paid for. Now that Baseball Mogul 2k4 is out with a good publisher, they will have some revenue to support development and support. Next they will be working on the online game, updating that with the new features and rosters. Once that's finished, the attention will shift back to Football Mogul.
So, what I'm trying to say is they needed to get Football Mogul out for the football season in order to get it published. However, once they did that, they were scammed and never got paid. So if you go buy a copy of the game from a retail store or any place other than SportsMogul.com, Sports Mogul does not get paid, at least that's what I have heard. Don't take my word as gospel, but what I described is more or less what happened.
Thanks for clearing that up. I can sympathize a lot better now, lol. Sorry for ripping it up, but now I get it...just wish someone woulda just came out and told us before all this.
Well said brainkandy...well said. People need to know these things...nothing is worse than a lack of information.
o so well said but i dont really feel like touchin my football mogul because of the buggyness i hope some help will be comin soon or i will just move on to my baseball mogul 04
Clay, Dee, et al:Quote:
Originally posted by takaplan
Sports Mogul was ripped off by the "publisher" of Football Mogul. The publisher sold the game, pocketed the money, and left, never bothering to give Sports Mogul what they were owed. They were scammed.
Again, let me try to explain why they can't drop everything and patch this game first. Since they did not get paid for Football Mogul and all the sales, they do not have the cash flow to pay their salaries and the necessary expenses while they patch a game that they were not paid for. Now that Baseball Mogul 2k4 is out with a good publisher, they will have some revenue to support development and support. Next they will be working on the online game, updating that with the new features and rosters. Once that's finished, the attention will shift back to Football Mogul.
So, what I'm trying to say is they needed to get Football Mogul out for the football season in order to get it published. However, once they did that, they were scammed and never got paid. So if you go buy a copy of the game from a retail store or any place other than SportsMogul.com, Sports Mogul does not get paid, at least that's what I have heard. Don't take my word as gospel, but what I described is more or less what happened.
Had this explanation been given back when everyone who bought FBM2K3 was railing about how bad it was, I suspect you'd have seen the complaining dwindle at least somewhat - at least on my part, it would've ceased entirely.
While I fully understand the reasons for keeping this information under wraps (I don't want anyone knowing my business affairs), now that I read of the problems you were encountering I feel much more sympathetic, and maybe even willing to take a $20 gamble on FBM2K4... once I find out the bugs have been exterminated, that is. :)
Interesting.
I can certainly understand a little bit why they aren't as active with FM anymore.
I wanna echo what nysteinbrenner said. Had they left a post explaining the problem and keeping people updated, many people would be alot more understanding.
It seems that the people at Sports Mogul are having a BIG problem with communicating with their customers. There is no excuse for not posting a message about the problem and apologizing. Having Tom do it 6 months later (and not Clay) reeks of bad PR.
They are a small company that relies on their loyal customers. They are being very irresponisble in not letting their customers know what is going on. They seem to be acting more like a big, huge, company then the small business that they are. Not a good sign at all. Any small business that treats their customers like big business' do will be out of business very soon.
Of couse, if Sports Mogul had been invovled in a legal action against the publisher, they probably were advised not to say anything at the time. Not a good idea to reveal details of a pending court case on a public message board.
Yeah, that's a good point. I'm not their messenger - they did not ask me to post the whole explaination.Quote:
Originally posted by Jeff Olsen
Of couse, if Sports Mogul had been invovled in a legal action against the publisher, they probably were advised not to say anything at the time. Not a good idea to reveal details of a pending court case on a public message board.
Exactly - if there's litigation involved, the last thing you want to do is put forth statements in a forum that's easily recited - such as this.
Tom, not being an employee of SM, is pretty much free to say as he likes on the subject, as his statements aren't admissable as known fact in a court of law, but merely as "educated supposition."
Presuming that litigation is afoot here, it may prove beneficial - SM could get more in a settlement than could ever have been made selling Football Mogul, giving the company better financial footing on which to continue its operations and growth.
Nah..the company will file bankruptcy and they will not get anything. That is usually how it goes.
...lol
stupid ottawa senetors
I dunno... I picked up some neat chairs from the office of the last company that owed me money went belly up as part of their liquidation. So at least there's hope!Quote:
Originally posted by william4192
Nah..the company will file bankruptcy and they will not get anything. That is usually how it goes.
Bingo!Quote:
Originally posted by Jeff Olsen
Of couse, if Sports Mogul had been invovled in a legal action against the publisher, they probably were advised not to say anything at the time. Not a good idea to reveal details of a pending court case on a public message board.
Sorry for the radio silence.
In addition to the legal issues there is also the business logic that if you are trying in good faith to reach a settlement and avoid court, it doesn't help much to be calling the other party a liar, fraud and sociapathic criminal in public.
Clay
Yeah...you wouldn't ever say that in public would ya Clay? ;) :DQuote:
Originally posted by Clay Dreslough
it doesn't help much to be calling the other party a liar, fraud and sociapathic criminal in public.
Hey, I know this is off the subject but the lyrics are actually...Quote:
Originally posted by brainkandy87
"My heart is broke...
I have some glue...
Help me heal...
Mend it with you..."
-Kurt Cobain
My heart is broke
But I have some glue
Help me ***inhale***
And mend it with you
If you don't believe me go here...
http://hjem.get2net.dk/nirvclub/lyrics/inuterl.htm#dumb
Yes, I know that. But this is more of a forum where kids come and I wasn't sure if a drug reference was gonna be too appealing for this forum.
I understand the whole thing but does that mean that there won't be any updates in the future? I payed for the game through the internet and have the NON-CD version.
I liked the idea of the game but felt it was missing something...so will I have to wait till 2k4 or will you just update 2k3 once things are resolved?
I agree...the game had alot of potential. I loved the ammy draft...in fact, I loved the game. If it weren't for the bugs and if there were pics, it'd be a franchise money machine for SM...they just ended up getting it up the butt from the publisher.
Let me make up a situation:
Microsoft releases a press statement saying they did not get paid by Wal-Mart of all software sold through Wal-Mart, so they will not support it any longer.
Now would all of you say "Oh, I understand. No problem!".
Yeah, right!
You are the hardcore "followers" of Mogul, so you don't care. But to the common player (who Clay insists on trying to reach) they don't care about that. That was Sports Mogul's problem, not theirs. They bought a product with Sports Mogul on it with the promise (as they do with all their products) to release tons of patches fixing bugs etc...
I'm sorry, but I seriously doubt many buyers of the game care about their finances. Now, I'm NOT saying I am one of them (I don't really buy their product any longer, I"m waiting for a true update to be honest), but you have to remember just b/c Sports Mogul got screwed, does not mean their customers now have to.
If it was anyother company you guys would not be so understanding.
Imagine buying a DVD from Best Buy and you try to return it (unopened within 30 days) and they say "Warner Bros. never paid us, so you won't get a refund". I seriously doubt any of you would say, "Oh I understand, no problem Best Buy. We are so faithful to you that it is not a problem".
And before anyone says it, the size of the company does not matter. If you buy a product from ANY company, you expect what you pay for. And yes, with Sports Mogul you buy the game with the promise of free updates.
I'm sure all the diehards are going to flame me out, but I speak the truth guys.
I never said we wouldn't support Football Mogul. We have released several patches (the most current versions are available here: http://www.sportsmogul.com/footballcd/index.htm).
If you have a bug, let me know and I'll try to fix it.
Clay
Just for the record, I did not mean to speak about the company or their business, I was just talking about some people's response and their expectations of others.