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The creators of this game need to know really how many people out there feel like they have wasted there money on this game.
Just post a message that you wasted your money or not.
This is one of the problems with companies, they rush a product out that is not good at all, heck I would have settled for a roster patch for the previous version of football mogul. That is basically what this is. Why is baseball mogul such a superior product?:(
Well, I would agree with you, but I am positive that they will come out with some great patches that improve this game to the level of BM, at least i hope.
i was on the beta team. i realized as this game was going it wasn't worth wasting money on so i have not bought it and i buy just about every baseball and football sports sim out there.
i believe that before a game is developed the developer has to figure out what will make a game fun to play because that is the most important ingredient.
gm based football sims based on the salary cap should consist of drafting and fa signings. since there is a salary cap trading between teams for active players is non-existent as in the real nfl. what does this mean? it means that football sims unlike baseball must include an emphasis on the coaching of the actual games to make the game fun. by the way how realistic would a football game be if after the 4th game u traded kurt warner for tom brady and expected it to have no impact on your team. baseball just lends itself to a more enjoyable gm experience.
i really enjoy the gm side of the baseball and football sims but in football there just isn't enough to do so it is important to be able to scout, set up gameplans and call plays during the game.
look at real baseball and football. there is no baseball team in which the title of gm and manager is vested in 1 person yet while not common it is done in the nfl.
there are 162 games in baseball and only 16 in football which lends to emphasis on individual games in the nfl. when you coach football every play is a unique experience while as we all know from siming baseball less strategy is called for.
i coached both football and baseball and i can tell you from personal experience that football is a game like no other in the sense that u spend 10 hours off the field to every 1 on the field. baseball while every bit as great a game requires less time off the field. what this tells me is that to experience a fun and realistic football sim it has to focus on the gameplanning and playcalling aspects of the game while retaining the gm side of the game. in my opinion front office football comes the closest but was definitely short on the coaching side. the new edition looks like it will expand the coaching area which i think will make it a good game
i don't think the really great football sim yet exists but some developers are trying to get there. football mogul is not one of those. there is just nothing to the game. you draft , organize your team and in 10 minutes u play a season and move on to the next season. how long does it take to grow weary of doing that.
i think the way to develope a game is to start a forum and ask people to contribute ideas on what they want to see in a game. then go to a coach or coaches and ask them to expand on the ideas that have been included in the game. developing a football sim should consist of a gm developer and a coaching developer. they are 2 completely different aspects of the game. i often thought that it would make sense to combine action pc for the coaching side with fof for the gm side and u would have a good game
the bottom line is that like many of u i don't care what the name of the game is i just want there to be as many good ones as possible. i will buy and play them all. right now while i own most of the football and baseball sims out there- what do i play? ootp4 and ootp4 online. that is it. no football games at all. so u better believe that i am excited when i hear of a new edition of football mogul and then very disappointed when i see what the game consists of.
what is truly sad with those of us that are life-long sim-gamers is we spend a lot of time waiting for the good game to arrive in the mail. a few days later after playing the game we are waiting for the next one. even sadder is the fact that most simmers believe that "championship manager" (a soccer game) is by far the best sim out there. i have the game and have never played it because i just can't get roused on soccer
I totally agree. Hopefully Front Office Football 4 will be what us football game simmers are looking for. If it is not, then I will be giving up on the perfect football sim. I just don't think it will happen.
I like your reply.
I was also on the beta team and knew that this game was not worthy of a purchase.
At the very least they could have made it equal to BM2K3. Hopefully they will with upcoming patches, but this product has definately been rushed.
I agree that some type of gameplay option needs to be added. It would be cool to have the chance to actually play-call a game against a real person.
This games needs some kind of online play. Right now it would be very difficult to run a league.
Front Office Football looks to be the best football sim even tho it doesn't come with online play.
I just hope this product hasn't ruined the reputation of Clay and Sportsmogul. I know those guys can make a quality game. I think many of us see that they just didn't live up to their potential that most of us expect.
It was only $20 so I'm not bitter...but yeah, it wasn't worth buying. These guys appear to not know/care at all how the real NFL works. The player search functions are weak. The stat displays are way too cumbersome.
Honestly, I'd have paid $20 for this not to be released, because I think Jim Gindin looks at this and becomes complacent with FOF (when he really should be looking at Champ Mgr and seeing what the competition is...it says a whole lot when non-soccer fans are playing a soccer sim just b/c its so far ahead of what America has to offer for their version of football)
Anyway, I know its hard to develop a game, I couldnt do any better, etc, but as a customer this game is a pretty major dud.
I was on the beta team, and essentially skipped the game when no enhancements were made afa even setting up a offense or defense was concerned.
I have FOF the college years and that is a model of how a game should be done.
Unless there is some cool feature, there is no reason to buy a game specifically for being a general manager, as you could just simulate games on a video game. Football Mogul has nothing particularly great from simming off of Madden 2003, NFL 2k3, or NFL Gameday 2003. It's basic, and the players just aren't accurately scaled. I've noticed a lot of players on BBM are no-names, but they become superstars, but that is in time. I wasted my demo plays, so the only comparison I have is with the Rams.
I auto-sorted, and was shocked. Lamar Gordon, a half back, was my starting fullback. Tom Nutten was taken out by Kaluna Noa and I think Timmerman had been replaced, maybe by Cameron Spikes. Tyoka Jackson had filled a spot, and Courtland Bullard replaced Tommy Polley. Steve Belisarri and Rich Coady are the starting safeties, even though one was cut and one isn't likely to play much, considering he is in a position switch from QB.
The rest of the game is decent, but I don't expect to buy it, I'll just sim Madden, and get the same features and then some.
I too am disappointed. I've download the demo and while I love the new blocking stat and red zone stat, the new interface, the 8 divisions, the career stats and the real players, overall the game just doesn't seem to be a lot of new options to get me to buy it.
I like the last FM, but there are a lot of flaws and needed improvements. Now I hear about all these bugs. It makes me not want to spend the money to purchase the game.
:(
I hate to be a spoil sport, but just a few things I wanted to point out being a fan of the game who has already purchased it.
Firstly, I am glad the interface stayed relatively the same. As a stat-head, it's really the only thing I look at (and is why this bug that is compiling all years after 2009 into one BIG year is so frustrating) Sure many will have the complaint that it looks the same as the original FM, however those are the same people who were entranced by the "flashy colors" added to BM2k3 to make it look different. I for one was just distracted by graphics changes, but again I'm just a stat-head and don't need to be dazzled by graphics to enjoy a game.
Does this mean that I don't think it could be improved with new features? Of course not. I for one would love a NEWS screen to see the top storys/performances each week like you can in BM, and a Pro Bowl game would be fun (though hardly neccessary) For those of us looking for a game similar to the original Football Mogul, you will not be dissapointed once this new patch comes out. For those of you looking to call your own plays and make substitutions in the middle of games, I suggest you go out and buy a game like Madden 2003 for $60 and get far inferior simulations for 3 times the price.
Now I'm not a plant for Clay to try to quash the uprising of a few angered Football Mogul fans (who haven't seemed to have paid for the game anyway), I'm just a fan myself who didn't have crazy expectations of what this game was gonna be. All in all, if you liked Football Mogul you'll like this game, and once a new patch comes out I will reccomend all of my friends to buy it as quickly as they can. If I knew it would be so buggy I would have waited a month to actually purchase the game, however it is still a hands down good game. I will say it is great when the "stat-running," "schedule-running," and "super quarterbacks" are fixed with a patch. If you like the demo, you'll like the game. If you don't like the demo, you probably won't like the game, so don't buy it expecting a bunch of secret features to be magically unlocked after doing so.
Did you mean 'ruining', or are you having problems with rushing stats? I just ask because if your experiences with the game have been like the rest of ours, it could be either/or. Gotta love a buggy game! (Actually, I tried for a long time, but just couldn't live with it. YMMV)Quote:
Originally posted by hoserhound
I will say it is great when the "stat-running," "schedule-running," and "super quarterbacks" are fixed with a patch.
Hi! Dee here (Clay, the programmer's wife)
I hope I'm not throwing oil on a greasefire by posting in here, but I wanted to try to ease/sooth/address some of the issues here.
Well, first of all, we ask that you do try the free full-feature demo, and if you don't like the game, don't buy it. I'm not sure how else we can ensure our customers' happiness beyond letting them try the full game for a while, and then make up their minds about it. The demo is specifically provided so that you don't waste your money...so the title of this thread is frustrating for me to hear.
Yes, Football Mogul needs more features. Clay agonizes over every release, because he knows we're still not to what we consider the perfect game for either of our products (baseball or football). And, football has had a lot less time put into it as compared to baseball.
Here's a little history, for perspective. When we started Baseball Mogul I back in 1995, clay had had an entire year to program, all by himself full time, before he even got online and started approaching people for beta testing. I was working to support us both, and he didn't have employees or a corporation, so for him, it was just one year of programming. Nice and uninterrupted. Then, we had several releases, which gave him more time to polish the game. Then, we did the online version, and every improvement in that was added to the current CD product. It's been a long, long process to get the baseball game to the current level...and we still have many more features we're going to add (funding providing...) And, it takes Clay's time to add them.
We tried to clone him, but so far, Ellie hasn't taken a shine to programming as much as she has to watching this flash animation: http://etrata.home.attbi.com/flash/banana.swf
So, when I hear someone say 'They should at least get it to be as good as Baseball Mogul 2K3', I do wince a bit. That's 7 years of development time. We are going to try to get it to as perfect a state as possible -- every game developer does, if funding allows.
We'll get there...just give us time and whatever positive energy and thoughts you can spare. (Don't give us money...if you don't like the demo, please don't buy the game!)
And, do buy Jim Gindin's next release! :) We had the wonderful good fortune to get to meet him last week, and he's a total sweetheart.
-Dee Dreslough
dee that was a nice post. i posted earlier on this thread and i am sure i know exactly what a good game should have. but there is one problem- i don't anything about programming and little more about computers. sometimes it is good for the computer expert to come forward and say as u did that it is anything but easy to simply produce a game that has all the needed features.
i have often wondered why producing a sim game is not a joint effort. why don't 4 programmers get together and each work on certain aspects of the game. it seems this would be a good way to go. there is a new sim organization called studio 400. it is on the ootp site. i think that is the approach they are taking. i would be curious to read your views on the joint effort approach. if it is possible i think for a game as complicatedas football it might take more than 1 person to get it right.
i went to the studios 400 football site. i don't have a complete answer yet but it appears that they have at least 2 programmers working on their new football game.
Thanks for the response Dee. I know that you guys are a small company with limited resources, it just seems to many of us that the game was rushed.
I played the original Football Mogul and then this new version and the differences are few and far between. I think people get frusterated at game companies that release products that are not ready for primetime. I know you guys need the money from sales. I played it and didn't like it. I was disapointed as I expected more from you guys.
I know you guys had 7 years to work on Baseball Mogul to get it to the level that it is, but you can't tell me that it'll take 7 years to get Football Mogul to that level. Some of the work you guys did for BM could be transfered to this game such as the headlines, awards, etc.
I hope you guys get that funding that you want. I can't wait for Baseball Mogul 2004.