16.12 Big bug involving catchers arm vital

I’m using 16.12 patch and in modern mode.

This is a major bug involving all of the catchers, whether they are mlb guys or minor league catchers. You can see Yadier Molina of the cardinals is in the 90’s with the arm, and you can look at all the other catchers as well and it still messes them up after simming just one year into the future. Hell I placed Christian Bethancourt of the Atlanta Braves in the minors and his arm dropped dramatically like the mlb guys, so it happens to all the catchers, then you sim it just one year, you sim it to March 1st, 2014, and all the catchers arm vitals drop drastically, most in the 60’s and some even in the 50’s, and their arms were in the 80’s and 90’s in the year 2013. I just simmed it one year and all their arms got destroyed. This is something very major and hard to play when the catchers arms suck like this.

This happened to our online league when we switched over from '13 - many catchers took serious hits to all their defensive vitals, but arms most of all.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think this may be a display bug. I'm still using 16.09, and I've seen very low arm ratings for some catchers (but by no means all), even lower than what rocky1 reports. But they still seem to be able to throw out a decent percentage of basestealers, so I'm thinking that their arm strength is still in the 80s or 90s as it should be, but it's being displayed as far lower in the scouting reports.

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Originally Posted by dps

I'm not 100% sure, but I think this may be a display bug. I'm still using 16.09, and I've seen very low arm ratings for some catchers (but by no means all), even lower than what rocky1 reports. But they still seem to be able to throw out a decent percentage of basestealers, so I'm thinking that their arm strength is still in the 80s or 90s as it should be, but it's being displayed as far lower in the scouting reports.

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That's not accurate in my sims. I simmed the 2014 season and good catchers weren't throwing out guys like they did the year before. Here are some examples:

Yadier Molina - cardinals had a 95 arm in 2013 and then in 2014 had a 63 arm - in 2013 in 134 games at catcher, he threw out 38% of base stealers, and in 2014 in 130 games he threw out only 14%. I kept settings the exact same as well.

Salvador Perez - Royals had a 97 arm in 2013 and then in 2014 had a 72 arm - in 2013 in 127 games at catcher, he threw out 40% of base stealers, and in 2014 in 131 games he threw out only 7%.

Evan Gattis - Braves had a 82 arm in 2013 and then in 2014 had a 69 arm - in 2013 in 132 games at catcher, he threw out 24% of base stealers, and in 2014 in 127 games he threw out only 12%.

Matt Wieters - Orioles had a 86 arm in 2013 and then in 2014 had a 55 arm - in 2013 in 127 games at catcher, he threw out 24% of base stealers, and in 2014 in 129 games he threw out only 13%.

That's just a few names to prove a point. Every single catcher that started in 2013 and 2014 had a good bit better % of base stealers thrown out in 2013 than 2014.

You mention the arm strength, you can click on the player, then go to the skills tab and look at throwing, and all of those guys will show better strength and accuracy in 2013 than 2014. It's more than just a display bug, it's an awful bug plain and simple that needs to be fixed. I realize you look at the catching and it still shows that on the catching part that throwing out runners and preventing steals shows in the 80's and 90's for those players, but that is not accurate at all. I wish this was just a display bug, but it isn't.

Using 16.12, fictional league, 5th season, mid-June 1905. Looked through my catchers and they all have arm rating between 70 and 80, while most of them were in team system for most of played years. Looked through all the Majors squads - same number 70-to-80, with occasional catchers with higher level, as well as occasional with lower. Maybe it'll happen later, but, right now it doesn't seem so.

Offtop question: what's the difference between "projected" and "predicted" stats?? From what I guessed, "predicted" are for upcoming single season, "projections" - for whole career. So, is it normal that in the fictional league where all stats, before starting, were deleted (major league, minor league and so on through advanced tools), "projections" are nearly (+/- 10-50 in category) matching career numbers for any certain player??

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Originally Posted by rocky1

That's not accurate in my sims. I simmed the 2014 season and good catchers weren't throwing out guys like they did the year before. Here are some examples:

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I can only report what I've seen in my game. Perhaps the bug wasn't as bad in 16.09 as in 16.12, or maybe it just hasn't manifested as badly in my game as in yours.

There is definitely a display problem.

I have a catcher in my minors:
1. Player card shows an arm of 61
2. Switch to commish
3. Player card shows an arm of 61
4. Hit edit
5. Projected shows an arm of 84
6. Change nothing
7. Hit Done
8. Player card shows an arm of 79 (reasonable)

This is only true of some, not all, players and is not confined to the current game. I believe I posted about it for last year's game.

That is not to say there is not another problem. When I upgraded to one of this year's patches the catcher's arms and performance to a huge hit. Several seasons later things seem to be working there way back. There are only 3 catchers in the majors with an arm greater than 80 but many in the minors. of course this is from the display stats screen so I do not know how reliable the info is considering the display problem.

How about the SB success rate or the % of players thrown out stealing? Is it reasonable?

Also, are pickoff outs properly reflected in the game? When I play a game I don't ever remember seeing a player picked off 1st?

I've definately seen players picked off 1st. And as I said, in my game at least, the SB success rate and the RTO% are both reasonable.

Well in the current season (2044) SB% is 69.9 which seems reasonable. 10 years earlier it was 71.1%. Pretty consistent I'd think. I think I saw somewhere that it was around 73% in 2012 MLB.

16.14 should fix this catcher arm bug. Be sure to let me know if it doesn't though. The patch is up on the main site.

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Originally Posted by cmilliken

16.14 should fix this catcher arm bug. Be sure to let me know if it doesn't though. The patch is up on the main site.

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i downloaded the patch and it didn't fix this problem. the catchers arms don't seem to be as damaged, but it's still clearly a bug. yadier molina did have a 63 arm, now it moved it to around 67. salvador perez did have a 72, now it's at 78. gattis had a 69 and now it's at 73. so i mean i guess it improved some, but i wouldn't call it a fix. it messes up everytime in modern mode after you sim to march 1st, 2014. molina and perez's arms were in the mid 90's on march 1st, 2013 and all of the 2013 season. it seems to be a display bug, because if you do what pirate66 showed above, it fixes the problem for that season, then when march 1st, 2015 comes around it messes it up again. it is a problem though. salvador perez of the royals had a 96 arm in 2013 and threw out 31%, then in 2014 i left his arm alone and it was 78 and he threw out only 17%, then on march 1st, 2015, i went into commish mode, went to predicted then it showed his arm being 96 and all i did was press ok and it fixed it for that year and he threw out 43%. i noticed with other players that once it's march 1st, 2014 and you leave the arms like it is, they always only throw out less than 20% of the runners, i have yet to find a starting catcher throw out 20% or more and same thing now. it's certainly possible a catcher has and i missed it, but either way this is clearly a problem.


BTW, what all did the 16.14 patch fix?

I see what you mean, thanks for the in depth description. I was able to replicate it and it's being looked at!

So after looking at it, we're working on it. But for now it seems as though saving and reloading your game should do the trick (at least it worked for me). I had simulated a season, then saved it on March 1st, 2014 (the catchers arms did change), then after reloading the game it seemed as though the catchers arms were set back to normal. Let me know if this helps anybody out!

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Originally Posted by cmilliken

So after looking at it, we're working on it. But for now it seems as though saving and reloading your game should do the trick (at least it worked for me). I had simulated a season, then saved it on March 1st, 2014 (the catchers arms did change), then after reloading the game it seemed as though the catchers arms were set back to normal. Let me know if this helps anybody out!

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reboot computer or start a new season?

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Originally Posted by daves

reboot computer or start a new season?

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i tried what cmilliken said and it also worked for me. start a new game on march 1st, 2013, then when you sim to march 1st, 2014 save the game. exit out of the game and go back into the game. the catchers' arms should be fixed. i simmed to march 1st, 2015 and again the arms got ****ed up again, but all you have to do is save it again on march 1st, 2015 and exit out of that game and go back in and it fixes it. hopefully this bug will be fixed later on where you don't have to do this, but for now it works and it at least allows you to play the game. it's much better than what it was.

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Originally Posted by cmilliken

So after looking at it, we're working on it. But for now it seems as though saving and reloading your game should do the trick (at least it worked for me). I had simulated a season, then saved it on March 1st, 2014 (the catchers arms did change), then after reloading the game it seemed as though the catchers arms were set back to normal. Let me know if this helps anybody out!

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i tried this and it works for me also. thanks a lot for the instructions on how to make it work right for now.

Anytime! I also tried saving a few days after March 1st, 2014 and it seemed to work as well. So I'm not sure that you have to exactly save and exit the game every March 1st, you may just need to save the game and exit at a certain date when you want to, but obviously it would be optimal to save and restart the game on the very first day of the season.