Paul Ryan introduced as R-Money's running mate

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Originally Posted by haveacigar

It's because so much of the conservative platform involves playing to their constituents' morality on "how things should be." You shouldn't give welfare because they didn't earn that money. Rich people shouldn't be taxed more because they shouldn't be punished for success. Government shouldn't borrow money because regular people can't. It can be a very compelling message, especially someone that lives in a more sparsely-populated area. When you live in a small town, the necessity of government isn't as readily apparent, and so people hear their conception of "how things should be" reinforced, and they buy in.

On an intellectual level, it's obviously not very logical. Government needs to respond realities, and it can't govern effectively if it is simply trying to conform it's actions with what people considered "fair" in other contexts and in other time frames. Wholly separate from whether conservatives actually govern in conformance with those morality plays (we all know people win elections on rhetoric and not results, and that both parties generally are just figuring out ways to get theirs, but I digress), the sooner we get morality plays out of general policy conversations, the better.

Now, you won't ever take morals out of debates on abortion, gay marriage, or other issues that implicate religion, and that's fine. But when talking about anything invoking money--be it tax policy, social security, industrial subsidies, restrictions on credit, welfare, health care, etc.--there is simply no reason to argue about something being fair or not fair. Both sides are at fault, because while conservatives love to make the arguments, you get plenty of liberals willing to engage it. Cries about class warfare are stupid either way. When you talk about progressive income tax, it has nothing to do with punishing the rich. Progressive income tax does not exist to be Robin Hood. The reason you place a higher tax burden on the wealthy is because it's the best way to maximize government revenue without damaging the economy. Taking money from someone who already has more money than they can and will prudently spend doesn't implicate economic growth the way that taking money from someone with an average income would. Similarly, giving people welfare seems like free money for someone who doesn't earn it, but it's still a good investment because otherwise that same person would likely resort to crime to make ends meet, ending up in the criminal justice system and costing the government far more to handle.

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/thread

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Originally Posted by Kobie

/yawn

More inane drivel from the miserable tosser who has Rollen Stewart as his forum avatar. I didn't realize they'd let you use the internet in federal prison.

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Originally Posted by Kobie

Funny story. Rollen Stewart, who is in prison for kidnapping a hotel maid several years back because he thought the rapture was happening, is nuttier than holy hell and spends his time writing (literally) colorful crank letters to various media outlets around the country, talking about the impending apocalypse and whatnot. A few years back, he sent one to our paper. One of our editors still has it. It's freakin' bizarre.

Attachment 38545

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Still anxiously awaiting yomama's thoroughly witty, well thought out, & poignant response

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...205,b=facebook

LOLOL.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...205,b=facebook

LOLOL.

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That is great! One of my favorite Ryan moments:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25nUb...e_gdata_player
Just look how dorky he looks trying to hand the guy the award.

How can this be happening?

"Hit the Road Barack"

The Dawgs and beginning to eat their own now ... lol

http://wizbangblog.com/2012/08/20/ne...must-go-story/

The polls on this election are very, very close .... when you give the liberal ticket a +9 percent of persons polled!!

Naw ... this is gonna be another blow out election ... R-money taking it all but Ill. and Calif.

Pass the popcorn,
Pete4256

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Originally Posted by Pete4256

How can this be happening?

"Hit the Road Barack"

The Dawgs and beginning to eat their own now ... lol

http://wizbangblog.com/2012/08/20/ne...must-go-story/

The polls on this election are very, very close .... when you give the liberal ticket a +9 percent of persons polled!!

Naw ... this is gonna be another blow out election ... R-money taking it all but Ill. and Calif.

Pass the popcorn,
Pete4256

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Romney's going to win every state except Illinois and California?

Good lord, you're a putz.

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Originally Posted by Pete4256

How can this be happening?

"Hit the Road Barack"

The Dawgs and beginning to eat their own now ... lol

http://wizbangblog.com/2012/08/20/ne...must-go-story/

The polls on this election are very, very close .... when you give the liberal ticket a +9 percent of persons polled!!

Naw ... this is gonna be another blow out election ... R-money taking it all but Ill. and Calif.

Pass the popcorn,
Pete4256

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How about a friendly wager. If Obama wins the election, then we'll have Clay/Dee IP ban you. If Romney wins the election, then Clay/Dee can IP ban me

Obviously this is a winning proposition for the forum as a whole b/c either you'll have to admit that you know Romney has no shot or the sane members of this forum will eventually get a break from your constant drivel

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Originally Posted by Kobie

Romney's going to win every state except Illinois and California?

Good lord, you're a putz.

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Only two dumb states in the union

Tell you what, Pete. I live in New York. If Romney wins New York, I'll gladly leave the forum forever. If Obama wins New York, then you leave.

Obama's leading by 29 points in the latest Siena poll.

I do find it funny pete is talking like we are in love with Obama. It doesn't seem like any of us are all that thrilled with Obama right now, though we are even less thrilled about Romney.

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Originally Posted by ragecage

I do find it funny pete is talking like we are in love with Obama. It doesn't seem like any of us are all that thrilled with Obama right now, though we are even less thrilled about Romney.

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On a scale of 1 to 10, I like Obama at about a 4. I like Romney at about a 1.

I'm more pulling for Obama in this election just to see the complete and utter meltdown from the Wingnut-American community after he's re-elected. It's going to be awesome.

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Originally Posted by ragecage

I do find it funny pete is talking like we are in love with Obama. It doesn't seem like any of us are all that thrilled with Obama right now, though we are even less thrilled about Romney.

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Seriously. A friend of mine posted a status on Facebook criticizing Mitt Romney and this nimrod lashed out about how terrible Obama is and how young people need to stop falling for his "rock star" image or whatever. This is what I said:

"i love however anyone criticizes romney, conservatives jump in and attack you for doing so by attacking obama and your assumed support for him, as if its impossible to criticize romney while also criticizing obama."

(However should be whenever)

I had a convo with my wife this morning about the whole civil liberties, american assassinations, gitmo, drone strikes in Pakistan, violating other nations' treaties, Patriot Act, and other issues I am starting to get a bigger appreciation for. Most of them are ones where the Obama administration has failed hugely. And like the article HGM posted yesterday, it's out of the public consciousness - even my beloved NPR rarely touches it at all, and the media as a whole ignores it. And we busily fight over the contrasts we see that are important - women's rights, the environment, education, the poor, healthcare, Medicare, etc - the tidbits we can break off and digest. The civil liberties things are harder to focus on, harder to learn about, harder to face.

Its like instead of rooting for the Red Sox or Yankees in a game, you see both teams blatantly violating the rules and tossing the umpires to the curb and can't help but pay attention.

It is really tough tho - the small mind wants to cling tight to the battles it knows and understands. Pete is a great example of this. And I have this fight in my mind - I really like and respect a lot of what Obama has done, but it hasn't been far enough or good enough on its own - then you add in this gigantic civil liberties and international failure. And still that is outweighed by the thought of a big-business-owned, environmentally ignorant, anti-poor, anti-choice, trickle-down-BS-economics right wing guy taking over. The fear of that worse-of-two-evils will almost certainly outweigh the civil liberties issues, and that is sad.

But on a hopeful note, at least I feel like the administration will have to react and make changes, unlike a right-wing administration that would give the middle finger like Bush did for 8 years. And maybe that's bias...maybe the right wing has a better chance of listening to libertarians than the left wing does to its activist base...but with the focus on the economy, smaller government, occupy wall street, and all this tea party BS, the (possibly most important) issue is somehow left alone.

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Originally Posted by Pete4256

How can this be happening?

"Hit the Road Barack"

The Dawgs and beginning to eat their own now ... lol

http://wizbangblog.com/2012/08/20/ne...must-go-story/

The polls on this election are very, very close .... when you give the liberal ticket a +9 percent of persons polled!!

Naw ... this is gonna be another blow out election ... R-money taking it all but Ill. and Calif.

Pass the popcorn,
Pete4256

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Turn out is the key. If turn out is high Romney doesn't stand a chance, nor will any Republican for many years to come.

Romney will win the general vote, but I cant say for sure if he can beat Obama in the electoral. Rasmussen, the most accurate polling place, says the same.