Occupy Wall Street protest

I'm surprised this hasn't been discussed more here with the attention it's been getting.

Proposed List Of Demands For Occupy Wall Street Movement:

Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. This demand can only be met by ending "Freetrade" by re-imposing trade tariffs on all imported goods entering the American market to level the playing field for domestic family farming and domestic manufacturing as most nations that are dumping cheap products onto the American market have radical wage and environmental regulation advantages. Another policy that must be instituted is raise the minimum wage to twenty dollars an hr.

Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. To do this all private insurers must be banned from the healthcare market as their only effect on the health of patients is to take money away from doctors, nurses and hospitals preventing them from doing their jobs and hand that money to wall st. investors.

Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.

Demand four: Free college education.

Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand.

Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now.

Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America's nuclear power plants.

Demand eight: Racial and gender equal rights amendment.

Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live.

Demand ten: Bring American elections up to international standards of a paper ballot precinct counted and recounted in front of an independent and party observers system.

Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Debt forgiveness of sovereign debt, commercial loans, home mortgages, home equity loans, credit card debt, student loans and personal loans now! All debt must be stricken from the "Books." World Bank Loans to all Nations, Bank to Bank Debt and all Bonds and Margin Call Debt in the stock market including all Derivatives or Credit Default Swaps, all 65 trillion dollars of them must also be stricken from the "Books." And I don't mean debt that is in default, I mean all debt on the entire planet period.

Demand twelve: Outlaw all credit reporting agencies.

Demand thirteen: Allow all workers to sign a ballot at any time during a union organizing campaign or at any time that represents their yeah or nay to having a union represent them in collective bargaining or to form a union.

These demands will create so many jobs it will be completely impossible to fill them without an open borders policy.

If the lower classes want to affect change with this kind of demonstration, they need to actually declare class warfare and make the wealthy elites AFRAID of them. Running around being angry and pursuing nothing more than a vague notion of fairness--with an attached list of neo-socialist utopia bulletpoints--is not going to make anyone care to do anything about it.

Leveling of the economic playing fields happens when two things are occurring. Either economic prosperity is so pronounced that wealth and opportunity hits everyone in the face (the rising-tide-lifts-all-boats idea), or the consequences of class warfare are so apparent and dangerous that the highest classes choose reform over the alternative.

Unfortunately, I think we might be past the point where lower classes can do anything to scare the elites anymore.

/commie Marx post

I heard of this group last week sometime and from the the reports I read, didn't really have a clear cut message. I understand though they are going through painful times and are fed up with some of what goes on in the country. So my initial thought was that this is good, hopefully something good can come from this. However, these demands are just insane. I would much rather prefer no government and an equal playing field than this.

Who is going to be the lucky lottery winners when it comes to demand 6? Why would I have any motivation to work with demand 3? Government has proven that it is just a wasteful entity with no clue of how to solve issues.

So yeah as much as I'd like to sit on my butt and play video games making a living wage, no thanks and they need to go back to the drawing board with realistic ideas that common people can get behind and like HAC said, intimidation is needed.

http://www.observer.com/2011/10/occu...h-baton-video/

I guess it's hard to intimidate when the police will beat you down.

From what I've heard this is a very disorganized, very poorly run protest group that can't seem to find their way. But it is odd they are getting government actioned like that.

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Originally Posted by ragecage

http://www.observer.com/2011/10/occu...h-baton-video/

I guess it's hard to intimidate when the police will beat you down.

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The lower classes didn't have much trouble doing it in the 20s and 30s. How bad do you want it?

The answer is, not really all that badly, which is why this isn't registering with anyone important. People keep asking why it's not getting mainstream media coverage, and the answer is always "oh the upper classes are controlling everything." ********. It's not getting coverage because it's not anything. It's a bunch of dudes walking around saying that they're mad about people having money and stuff. The tea party got pretty roundly ignored in its inception for that same reason, and only get press when they proved they weren't going away and they were serious about making it count.

There's a rally in Milwaukee this weekend. I might check it out.

Occupy Wall Street protests grow in size and credibility (photos, video, live updates)

Nationwide College Student Walkout Planned; 'Anonymous' Goes After NYSE

None of those demands (except the $2Trillion in new spending) would do anything to create jobs, and most of them would cost jobs. And the proposals about credit would pretty much destroy lending institutions, so you could forget about ever buying anything on credit again (which for day-to-day purchases, we'd be better off), so you could also forget about ever buying a new car or a house (unless you're rich or already own a house). And with only the rich able to buy new cars, say goodbye to what's left of the American automobile industry.

The demands seem a little out there, I'll be honest. I'm glad they produced some, but half seem good, and the other half are pretty far out there, even for this green/liberal.

On the other hand, something does have to get the 99% motivated. To have a congress that is mostly millionaires, deciding policy that effects the poor and middle class, is just asinine.

Re: demands:

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Admin note: This is not an official list of demands. This is a forum post submitted by a single user and hyped by irresponsible news/commentary agencies like Fox News and Mises.org. This content was not published by the OccupyWallSt.org collective, nor was it ever proposed or agreed to on a consensus basis with the NYC General Assembly. There is NO official list of demands.

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You know, being misrepresented wouldn't happen if this "movement" had some direction and actually told someone what they actually wanted.

I didn't think any of the Lefties here would bring this group up or bless their actions but ... LOL

Give me, give me, give me ... that's what I want. What a trip the new generation is ... hehehe

I really love that ITEM #11: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. (Frickin' Nut case the lot of them).

Sorry boys, the Tea Party still rules the day, big time. We will cost the size of government (EPA & Edu dept) and social (SS & UEI) spending in 2013 (hang in there it will happen).

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Originally Posted by Pete4256

Give me, give me, give me ... that's what I want. What a trip the new generation is ... hehehe

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"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."- Socrates

@ HoustonGM

WKRC 550 AM radio here in Cincinnati spoke with the young man for 30 minutes about the rally which is to occur on Saturday here. In that 30 minutes the young man refused to answer the the question posed to him more than 10 times:

What are you hoping to change?
What do you stand for?
What do you want people to do? X 10

The question was asked over and over again ... in different ways each time.

The only answer was we hope to bring people together to reach a conscious. (lol)

The Bunch in DC can't seem to do that one, let alone a bunch of unemployed youths that have never worked a year in their life yet. The movement is a joke (or a PAR-TEA) ... Period.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pete4256

Sorry boys, the Tea Party still rules the day, big time.

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You mean this Tea Party?

@ OregonDuck1989

Amen brother ... and that all changes when the children get a job (workin' for the man)and have to start paying taxes (payin' the big man).

@ Kobie

Your news source is New York (democate state of mind ) Times ... sorry this Swing state OH is Tea Party on fire. More and more people are showing up at each event. Last week at the Holiday Inn, they could not get all the people into the 2 room hall they have always used for our meetings.

Note: the meeting was in the Holiday Inn ... not on the lawn of the Holiday Inn.

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Originally Posted by Pete4256

@ Kobie

Your news source is New York (democate state of mind ) Times ... sorry this Swing state OH is Tea Party on fire. More and more people are showing up at each event. Last week at the Holiday Inn, they could not get all the people into the 2 room hall they have always used for our meetings.

Note: the meeting was in the Holiday Inn ... not on the lawn of the Holiday Inn.

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So because it's the New York Times, that means the facts in the article (you know, the poll that they were talking about) somehow don't exist?

And now you're using anecdotal evidence to claim a national trend. Allow me to be the first to say, cool story, bro.

@ Kobi

You think you can find me a New York Times poll that showed the Republicans will blow the Democrates out of office in 2010? Both at the States level and National level ... lol

Yep they're one sided.

Another thing ... we Tea Party members pass the hat to pay for our own meeting expenses.

We don't beg via the media or internet.

Cause we are hard workin' Americans with THE Dream.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pete4256

@ Kobi

You think you can find me a New York Times poll that showed the Republicans will blow the Democrates out of office in 2010? Both at the States level and National level ... lol

Yep on sided.

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It's funny how you automatically dismiss scientific polling because you don't like who sponsors the poll, or its results.

Here's a CNN poll from Aug. 9, complete with methodology, that puts the Tea Party at 51% unfavorable, worse than that of the Democrats and better than that of the Republicans: http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/im.../poll.aug9.pdf

Same organization's poll from Sept. 25, also complete with methodology, sees the Tea Party grow to 53% unfavorable, and actually tracks the movement's ratings, which have trended a few points more into unfavorability in every poll since January of last year: http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/im...ept27.poll.pdf

I didn't ask you for more BS polling.

I asked if the NYT ever reported a poll that actually got it RIGHT.


I found this on the net (so I has to be true):
The least accurate polls have poorly worded questions, insufficient samples, or are intentionally skewed. Polls conducted by organizations that work for or favor a particular party or candidate often deliberately skew their publicly released polls to bolster the party or candidate they would like to win. The New York Times and CBS polling organizations are notorious for polls that are weighted to favor Democrats.

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Originally Posted by Pete4256

I didn't ask you for more BS polling.

I asked if the NYT ever reported a poll that actually got it RIGHT.

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Do you have any idea how scientific polling works, Pete?

It's awesome how polls that don't affirm your worldview are "BS."

And I just proved your POLLING got it wrong last time.

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Originally Posted by Pete4256

And I just proved your POLLING got it wrong last time.

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Unless you provide some sort of citation, you "proved" nothing. I'm not going to do your work for you; and also, simply because one poll may or may not have gotten something wrong* does not invalidate polls in general.

* -- I say "may or may not have," that means that I am not going to sift through Google searches to prove YOUR thesis.

In short, prove that the NYT's polling got the results of the 2010 midterms wrong, or stop claiming that it did.

Here ya go, that wasn't that hard.

http://elections.nytimes.com/2010/forecasts/house

538 had the House projected for 232-203; it ended up 242-193. That's pretty damn close when you consider how many of those races were tight.

yep the polling of Science is great ...

Science said:

The World is Flat
Bleeding a patient will help them heal
Man can't fly
The World is heading for another Ice Age

Loved all those polls by using science to get it all (not) correct.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pete4256

yep the polling of Science is great ...

Science said:

The World is Flat
Bleeding a patient will help them heal
Man can't fly
The World is heading for another Ice Age

Loved all those polls by using science to get it all (not) correct.

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OMFG. There is a difference between the term "scientific polling" and "science." I can't tell whether you're being deliberately obstinate, or whether you are as ignorant or intellectually dishonest as to claim that it's the same thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_poll

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

Read. Learn.

So I bought these leaches for nothing? DAM IT

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Originally Posted by ragecage

So I bought these leaches for nothing? DAM IT

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Fry 'em up with some butter and garlic. Deeee-lish.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kobie

Here ya go, that wasn't that hard.

http://elections.nytimes.com/2010/forecasts/house

538 had the House projected for 232-203; it ended up 242-193. That's pretty damn close when you consider how many of those races were tight.

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You got to do better than that ... lol

The elections were in November ... that is a story from December 10th (one month later) ... I hope to goodness they got it right by then.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ragecage

So I bought these leaches for nothing? DAM IT

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sorry man ... they were the fastest things that came to mind at the moment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pete4256

You got to do better than that ... lol

The elections were in November ... that is a story from December 10th (one month later) ... I hope to goodness they got it right by then.

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The polls are from BEFORE THE ELECTION, you imbecile.

Me??

and I can give you last week's winning lottery numbers this week too.

Like I stated ... there are no NYT polls stating the Democrates would loose big time. And if you found any, it would have to be just a day or two before the elections on page 1000 ... lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pete4256

Like I stated ... there are no NYT polls stating the Democrates would loose big time.

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I just posted them. If you click on the individual districts, those are projections from November 2.

Period. End of discussion.

Also, learn to spell, for crying out loud.

So I was within 5 days of what you found ... the election was one week later.

I'm a republican (as if you needed to be reminded) and all I heard from the Left media (NBC, CBS, ABC and NPR) was the democrats will hold the Senate and possibly the House. Nothing of a blow out in 2010 ever reported by those networks. (a shock right?)

I agree with you .. it's time to play 3 games of BM .. later :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pete4256

So I was within 5 days of what you found ... the election was one week later.

I'm a republican (as if you needed to be reminded) and all I heard from the Left media (NBC, CBS, ABC and NPR) was the democrats will hold the Senate and possibly the House. Nothing of a blow out in 2010 ever reported by those networks.

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I hope those goal posts weren't too heavy. We turned a discussion about New York Times polling into what you remember hearing from "left media."

This conversation is over. Your intellectual dishonesty is simply too much for me to respond to without pissing myself off.

ok .. enjoy the rest of the evening

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pete4256

ok .. enjoy the rest of the evening

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It could be worse for the Occupy Wall Street Protesters, they could have people like Palin & Bachmann taking charge of their movement