Official "What are you thinking about right now?" (Political Version)

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The US collectively digs in its heels and does nothing.

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I think the US has done alot. Surely I think they can do alot more but nothing ever seems to satisfy alarmists. What exactly will be enough? What exactly do you want done? You talk about getting off oil like its so simple yet when taken to task you admit that you know we can't get off of oil immediately and abruptly and there's presently no other viable alternative to take up the mass of our energy need. I understand you're frustrated but (and this isn't necessarily directed at you) the constant complaining gets a deaf ear when no clear plan is ever laid out for discussion. Just more complaints.

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Collectively, folks (like you above) will search all day for any potential ammunition to say it isn't settled, it isn't happening, we're only responsible for 10% or 50% or something...and yet the hugest, factual, before-your-eyes indicators are ignored or dismissed. Hottest summer in a century? wildfires everywhere, drought, shrinking islands, shrinking icecaps, warm-weather creatures in antarctica...and yet more credence is given to a tiny report with a snowballs' chance in hell of mattering one way or the other? It's incredible.

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Both sides are guilty of cherry-picking data. Hottest summer in a century? Wasn't the year prior one of the coldest on record? Wildfires everywhere? Really? The year prior in the NE we had record snowfall. You can go back hundreds of years to find crazy wildfires. Is this what it comes to? We can't quantify it so we use every storm to "prove" it's present? I recall the predictions of horrific hurricane seasons the past couple years yet i'm fairly certain they've been relatively quiet. Shrinking ice caps? I just showed you scientific evidence from many in the field that Antarctica's ice has grown to record numbers while yes the Arctic Ice has melted to alltime lows. So wish to run with one and ignore the other and talk to me about using selective data? None of this means climate changing is occurring or it isn't occurring. It's just cherry-picking of events that may or may not have any correlation.

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How much do we need to know in order to start taking it seriously and making changes? We don't know everything about the human body yet...so should we just ignore all science and medicine collected up until now? We don't know everything about fracking, or long-term impacts from oil drilling offshore, but I don't see you pulling the breaks there. Same will long term cell phone exposure on our ears. Unless of course, anything pro-environment is fear mongering?

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Nobody is saying "do nothing". I don't hear anyone from either side of this subject saying "do nothing". We don't know everything about the human body so we take calculated and well measured steps. We test things on animals first and have oversight and approval processes for new drugs and procedures. We have medical certifications and I can go on and on. We don't know about long term impacts of drilling offshore yet in America at least spend the most on govt. oversight and safety procedures to make it as safe and as least impactful as we can. Sure it's not entirely effective (see gulf spill) but that's more reason NOT to expand without additional caution into areas we don't know about. As far as cellphones go....we have had many studies on the effects of cellular technology and I agree it's great increase in recent years is something that may have consequences. We regret the usage of asbestos despite it's miracle properties.

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But hey, we didn't know everything, kids. We should wait until around 2200 when we have a good body of data to draw from, then consider any incremental lifestyle changes, or taking 'science' seriously.

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Problem is there's no plan other than those that would cripple economies, lead to massive unemployment and the worst of civilization (see New Orleans riots post Katrina). That's the type of plans I see when I see posts to immediately raise to $10.00 per gallon gas prices. Surely there's some middle-ground that we can agree to that isn't "ignore" and isn't "destroy life as we know it". Until the two sides can get past their hysteria, fear mongering, and sticking their head in the sand bias than we will continue with the discussion as it is.

For as much as naysayers are too stuck up to believe that science may be right, the believers are too stuck up to believe that science may be wrong. The Wolfgang Knorrs studies are significantly important as he went much further than the typical punch numbers into a computer and get a model approach. And what he found has changed the way the science is looked at. That should be a wake-up call for both sides.

The problem is the ugly Prius isn't really all that much greener when you account for the production of the vehicle, not to mention that we still we need trucks to deliver the raw materials to the machine shops that build the parts for that unfortunate-looking monstrosity as well as shipping the parts to the assembly plants. (Full-on electric cars would still probably be worse than the prius because almost half of our electricity comes from dirty coal power plants.) Hybrid cars, and 10.00 a gallon gas isn't the answer. I don't know what the answer is, but luckily I don't need to know the correct answer in order to spot an obviously wrong answer. The Prius is not the answer. If it makes people feel better to drive the Prius, that's fine, but they're just deluding themselves.

The answer is a comprehensive attack on all facets. You don't just settle for coming up with an expensive hipster car. You invest in making the trucking cleaner. You invest in making sure that the gas not burned in cars doesn't simply get burned in a power plant instead. You invest in making rail transport more effective as an alternative to the 18-wheeler. As I've said before, this requires a commitment to moving forward similar to the commitment made during the New Deal, but the economy sucks anyway and the New Deal went a long way towards alleviating the depression. It could be a win-win, but the obstacle is the absurd amount of time politicians have spent fretting over the national debt, as if we should all worry that China is going to come over with a repo man one of these days and seize the Statue of Liberty.

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Originally Posted by haveacigar

The answer is a comprehensive attack on all facets. You don't just settle for coming up with an expensive hipster car. You invest in making the trucking cleaner. You invest in making sure that the gas not burned in cars doesn't simply get burned in a power plant instead. You invest in making rail transport more effective as an alternative to the 18-wheeler. As I've said before, this requires a commitment to moving forward similar to the commitment made during the New Deal, but the economy sucks anyway and the New Deal went a long way towards alleviating the depression. It could be a win-win, but the obstacle is the absurd amount of time politicians have spent fretting over the national debt, as if we should all worry that China is going to come over with a repo man one of these days and seize the Statue of Liberty.

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agreed. I said a few years ago that the stimulus plan wasn't nearly big enough and went to the wrong people. Giving it to states so they can employ teachers and police officers until the funds run out is ridiculous. You have to invest it in infrastructure so you have something viable that can be a profit center moving forward. So that you can earn back on that stimulus money invested. A multi-faceted approach in which we all realize that oil is needed just as is alternative energy. We need leadership that can push past the partisanship of politics and use the bully pulpit to speak to Americans straight and criticize the rhetoric that all oil is bad and all greenies are whack. Neither is true yet thats all the noise.

Well and before I sound like I'm only blaming conservatives for deficit fear-mongering, you're right about the stimulus, and that's really only Obama's fault for being more interested in spending money where his people want it to go.

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Originally Posted by haveacigar

The answer is a comprehensive attack on all facets. You don't just settle for coming up with an expensive hipster car. You invest in making the trucking cleaner. You invest in making sure that the gas not burned in cars doesn't simply get burned in a power plant instead. You invest in making rail transport more effective as an alternative to the 18-wheeler. As I've said before, this requires a commitment to moving forward similar to the commitment made during the New Deal, but the economy sucks anyway and the New Deal went a long way towards alleviating the depression. It could be a win-win, but the obstacle is the absurd amount of time politicians have spent fretting over the national debt, as if we should all worry that China is going to come over with a repo man one of these days and seize the Statue of Liberty.

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Actually the government is forcing this. All trucks prior to a certain year (I don't remember off the top of my head) have to be retrofitted with new exhausts that reduce emissions dramatically. My boss is doing this to our 2002 Peterbilt which will cost 15k out of his own pocket. My truck will be retrofitted next year. I feel it's really ridiculous the government forcing the issue during times like these, but it is what it is.

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Originally Posted by Alloutwar

This is what I don't get. It is unfolding. Today. Right now.

Is that not clear to other people? After hearing reports and science and pictures of melting icecaps, sinking islands, and all kinds of species screwed up by our behavior...this is still a question?

This is just one of the most baffling things about living in this country, in this world to me. republican presidential nominees can universally say that global warming doesn't exist, or is junk science. And people in everyday life, despite a scientific consensus, constant reports of our environmental impact, and a rapid ascent to a tipping point that our race likely can't come back from, just sort of shrug it off as not that serious, not happening, or just not relevant to their life.

What is it about climate change that causes this behavior in humans? Is it that hard to understand? Is it just not readily apparent in your commute and job, so therefore it's non existent? Is it just too scary to think about, so it's safer to downplay it or pretend is isn't happening? I'd honestly like to know.

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There probably is a pass the buck mentality to all of this. We continue our merry way, making money, regardless of impact until something happens where it just can't be ignored anymore and I am sure our leaders are hoping the issue gets passed on to their childrens children so they themselves don't have to figure it out.

I also don't think people care that much because outside of summer conditions it hasn't really effected their lives just yet. People are selfish, they don't care until it hits them hard directly. I have to admit, I am in that camp of not caring.

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Originally Posted by etothep

If those other countries jumped off a bridge, would you?

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Yes.

So, AOW is gonna love this. Read an article talking about how manufacturing is on the rise and how the US' comparative industrial advantage has improved over the last 5 years or so. Some estimates say that the US could add 5 million new manufacturing jobs in the next decade. Then I looked at why. Improving wages in developing nations make outsourcing pointless, which is great and all. But then the other reason? Lower industrial overhead because fracking is making natural gas cheap in the US.

So, industrial recovery that could be the key to another economic boom, but, have to rape the environment first. But, then again, the petroleum companies maintain that fracking doesn't harm the environment, so, that's probably legit.

I blame Obama.

good read on the problem with the Tea Party & the Occupy movement for that matter. The machine in this country will not permit a dissenting voice to rise to a level where it can gain traction. The machine includes both the Right and Left wing of Congress as well as the media and big business. The machine lives by dividing and conquering all to expand it's own power and push it's own self promotion. I don't know if it's possible for someone to rise above all working to hold it down and gain traction by educating Americans on the truth. That it's own divisiveness is killing it. That it's entirely illogical that two entities with the sole interest of bettering America can be 180 degrees apart on nearly every issue. That freedom has been bought and sold down the river a long time ago, and that govt. expansion of powers has stripped us of our freedoms, has polluted our media, and coerced us into believing the same illogical set of beliefs 180 degrees apart through manipulation for their own empowerment.

http://plymouthdailynews.com/photos/problem-tea-party

Obama looked terrible last night.

Debate was bad for Obama but I highly doubt it swings any undecideds

Gary Johnson won the debate last nite.

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Originally Posted by ragecage

Gary Johnson won the debate last nite.

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Attachment 38837

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Originally Posted by OregonDuck1989

Debate was bad for Obama but I highly doubt it swings any undecideds

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His performance was terrible but he looked like he aged 15 years in the last four. He had no confidence. Looked like a broken man. Makes you wonder why anyone wants that job anyway. Just look at the before and after pictures of past presidents like Bush and Clinton. That job takes alot out of you!

So gas prices in some places hit at 5.69 a gallon here today. Thank you California for your excessive taxes and environmental restrictions. I'm sure AOW is pleased with this.

Also I look forward to the next report that Oil Companies made record profits yet again, while the market speculates to keep the prices up.

i gassed up at $3.52/gallon today. California is in a class by itself with refinery issues and pipeline dilemmas. You'd be paying $4 even if your libertard friends abolished the EPA and any other acronym that dared regulate.

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Originally Posted by Alloutwar

i gassed up at $3.52/gallon today. California is in a class by itself with refinery issues and pipeline dilemmas. You'd be paying $4 even if your libertard friends abolished the EPA and any other acronym that dared regulate.

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4 Dollars is acceptable.

What a shocker with Debate #1 out come ... 67% polled said Mitt won verses only 26% for Barack. (note that 12.6% of Americans are black <-- no racism here .. lol)

Really looking forward to the "Ryan vs Biden" debate next week since the VP was picked ... lol

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Originally Posted by Pete4256

What a shocker with Debate #1 out come ... 67% polled said Mitt won verses only 26% for Barack. (note that 12.6% of Americans are black <-- no racism here .. lol)

Really looking forward to the "Ryan vs Biden" debate next week since the VP was picked ... lol

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I don't know why race is worth mentioning.

But yes, it's pretty much consensus among everyone that Obama **** his pants this debate.... but you'll also notice that Mitt Romney completely changed who he was. Now, he's back to being a centrist, not a far-right Tea Partier like you want him to be.

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Originally Posted by MichelleWie

Obama looked terrible last night.

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You got see Obama verses a real conservative attack in debate #1. Obama had no teleprompter, no cheering crowds and no media spin to help him. But Jim Lehrer sure tried to help him the best he could a few times ... lol

Looking forward to Oct 11th

"Teleprompter" is still a thing?

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

I don't know why race is worth mentioning.

But yes, it's pretty much consensus among everyone that Obama **** his pants this debate.... but you'll also notice that Mitt Romney completely changed who he was. Now, he's back to being a centrist, not a far-right Tea Partier like you want him to be.

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Nah ... Mitt just isn't what the LEFTY Media has been trying to Sound Bite him into.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

"Teleprompter" is still a thing?

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It looked to me like Barack was looking around for something all night ... I thought he was missing the teleprompter for some help.

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Originally Posted by Pete4256

Nah ... Mitt just isn't what the LEFTY Media has been trying to Sound Bite him into.

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Yeah, because candidates don't always run to the extreme in the primary, especially given the extremist nature of the Republican base, before returning to the center in the general election.

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Originally Posted by Pete4256

It looked to me like Barack was looking around for something all night ... I thought he was missing the teleprompter for some help.

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Every President ever since teleprompters were invented used a teleprompter for speeches. This is one of the more tired and dumb "insults" you guys throw around at the guy.

This is a President riddled with incredibly serious flaws. I just cannot for the life of me understand why the Republicans have to make crap up or whine on and on about meaningless nonsense.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Every President ever since teleprompters were invented used a teleprompter for speeches. This is one of the more tired and dumb "insults" you guys throw around at the guy.

This is a President riddled with incredibly serious flaws. I just cannot for the life of me understand why the Republicans have to make crap up or whine on and on about meaningless nonsense.

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i think it's fair. since one of the complements that obama frequently receives is how great of an orator he is, I think it fair to point out how poor he is when he doesn't have his teleprompter. Personally, I dont' think he's all taht bad w/o the teleprompter but the popular opinion, amongst those on both sides of the aisle, has been that he is in fact poor w/o it. I didn't watch this whole debate, just bits and pieces, so i really don't know. But anyway, the popular belief is that he butchers attempts to relay thought w/o a teleprompter WHICH IS a significant issue since for much of the job he's meeting with world leaders and the like and not giving speeches with teleprompters.

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Originally Posted by Pete4256

Nah ... Mitt just isn't what the LEFTY Media has been trying to Sound Bite him into.

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i didn't watch the debate, just small parts of it...don't need to watch it though to know that RMoney changes positions dependent upon the audience.

http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/1...nks/?hpt=hp_c1

don't believe ANY politician when they tell you they want to cut the military. when it comes to jobs in their back yard it's a firm no.

The next person I hear who plays the "gas was only 1.89 four years ago" card is getting kicked in the head.

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Originally Posted by MichelleWie

The next person I hear who plays the "gas was only 1.89 four years ago" card is getting kicked in the head.

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No crap. People who use that as a cudgel against Obama are either hacks, or truly have no clue how gas prices work and what DEMAND MEANS.

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Originally Posted by Kobie

No crap. People who use that as a cudgel against Obama are either hacks, or truly have no clue how gas prices work and what DEMAND MEANS.

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And the gas prices were at record highs during most of Bush's 8 years they just bottomed out with the economy at the end of his term.

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Originally Posted by MichelleWie

The next person I hear who plays the "gas was only 1.89 four years ago" card is getting kicked in the head.

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Speculation on the oil market has drove prices up since 2004 and made them much higher than they should be by about 60%.

Why the **** do we have a parking lot with 2000 new tanks just sitting in the desert?
And of course the pussies in Congress want to make more so they don't get kicked out when the plants close. This is the reason we're broke. We keep on spending money on ******** things like tanks that will never get used.

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Originally Posted by asianinvasion

Why the **** do we have a parking lot with 2000 new tanks just sitting in the desert?
And of course the pussies in Congress want to make more so they don't get kicked out when the plants close. This is the reason we're broke. We keep on spending money on ******** things like tanks that will never get used.

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agreed. you missed post # 1194.

ahhh, democracy in action:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_1971960.html

Gotta love our corrupt two party system that creates rules that oppress opposing voices and allow for the charade we call democracy to continue. I would likely never vote for her, but the fact our system requires someone to garner at least 15% vote in national polling BUT DOESN'T INCLUDE THEM IN ALL THE POLLS and the main stream media ignores them to the point where it's near impossible to get noticed is shameful.

This system is a farce, built to divide America and oppress any and all opposing voices. Be it third parties, or the tea party/occupy movements. The machine swallows them up and spits them out while selling us the same old crap election cycle after election cycle.

Rage and dickay have become one!

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Originally Posted by OregonDuck1989

Rage and dickay have become one!

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Dickcage

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Originally Posted by Kobie

Dickcage

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I prefer ragingdick