Sabr style Lineups

There have been some arguments on another forum about where particular players should bat in a lineup.

Including me saying Albert should bat cleanup behind Holliday for a marginal increase in runs scored over the course of the season.

So I poised these made up numbers. Tell me what order you would put these guys in a lineup.

.240/305/410
.290/320/525
.300/360/410
.275/400/400
.320/390/550
.255/310/600
.220/290/400
.250/340/420
.265/300/400

For this hypothetical, we do not know anyone's speed.

This is the order that I created

7. - .240/305/410
5. - .290/320/525
1. - .300/360/410
2. - .275/400/400
3. - .320/390/550
4. - .255/310/600
9. - .220/290/400
6. - .250/340/420
8. - .265/300/400


But the number 9 hitter is awfully difficult to place, I maybe would swap 8 and 9, depending on speed of course.

And not so sure about one and two as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jeffy25

there have been some arguments on another forum about where particular players should bat in a lineup.

Including me saying albert should bat cleanup behind holliday for a marginal increase in runs scored over the course of the season.

So i poised these made up numbers. Tell me what order you would put these guys in a lineup.

.240/305/410 -1
.290/320/525 -2
.300/360/410
.275/400/400
.320/390/550
.255/310/600
.220/290/400
.250/340/420
.265/300/400

for this hypothetical, we do not know anyone's speed.

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.275/400/400 - 1 looks like a guy who get on base alot
.290/320/525 - looks more like a contact/get on base guy
.320/390/550 - 3 looks like the rbi type and can drive in runs
.300/360/410 - 4 looks like a pretty good hitter
.265/300/400 - 5 well
.255/310/600 - 6 well
.250/340/420 - 7 well
.240/305/410 - 8 well
.220/290/400 - 9 why is this guy even on the team???

1 - .275/400/400
2 - .300/360/410
3 - .320/390/550
4 - .290/320/525
5 - .255/310/600
6 - .250/340/420
7 - .240/305/410
8 - .265/300/400
9 - .220/290/400

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Josh123123123

.275/400/400
.290/320/525
.320/390/550
.300/360/410
.265/300/400
.255/310/600
.250/340/420
.240/305/410
.220/290/400

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seriously?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jeffy25

.275/400/400 Best OBP, least power. Should lead off
.300/360/410 Good OBP, not much power
.320/390/550 Best hitter needs to have the best OBP on in front of him
.255/310/600 Best power, needs to have runner on for his home runs
.290/320/525 Best hitter left
.250/340/420 Best hitter left
.240/305/410 Best hitter left
.220/290/400 since the #3 hitter is the best hitter, I don't want the worst guy 9th
.265/300/400 I'd rather have this guy 9th

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.

That's an easy lineup to make. Try this one.

.213/.289/.326 [.615]
.251/.347/.520 [.867]
.272/.303/.463 [.766]
.250/.278/.330 [.609]
.265/.304/.379 [.683]
.213/.271/.355 [.625]
.283/.339/.425 [.764]
.352/.386/.465 [.851]
.214/.324/.411 [.735]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Josh123123123

.275/400/400 - 1 looks like a guy who get on base alot
.290/320/525 - looks more like a contact/get on base guy
.320/390/550 - 3 looks like the rbi type and can drive in runs
.300/360/410 - 4 looks like a pretty good hitter
.265/300/400 - 5 well
.255/310/600 - 6 well
.250/340/420 - 7 well
.240/305/410 - 8 well
.220/290/400 - 9 why is this guy even on the team???

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Your cleanup hitter has an ISO of .110, and your #2 hitter has an ISO of .235....

How the F is someone slugging .525 with a .320 OBP considered a "contact/get on base guy"?? That's like, the opposite, man.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jeffy25

.240/305/410
.290/320/525
.300/360/410
.275/400/400
.320/390/550
.255/310/600
.220/290/400
.250/340/420
.265/300/400

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300/360/410 (power in the leadoff spot is a waste)
275/400/400 (more power, still good hitter, likely to get at least one of the first 2 on base)
290/320/525 (someone who will hit runners in or hit himself a home run if no one is on)
320/390/500 (best hitter = cleanup)
255/310/600 (lots of XBH)
250/340/420 (descending from here)
240/305/410
265/300/400
220/290/400

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 200tang

That's an easy lineup to make. Try this one.

.213/.289/.326 [.615]
.251/.347/.520 [.867]
.272/.303/.463 [.766]
.250/.278/.330 [.609]
.265/.304/.379 [.683]
.213/.271/.355 [.625]
.283/.339/.425 [.764]
.352/.386/.465 [.851]
.214/.324/.411 [.735]

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Yeah, I sort of just made up numbers generally without thinking too much...now on to your lineup.










(difficult to decide)

I had some difficult situations here, of course, lefty righty splits and of course speed....but I would probably do something like this:

1. - .265/.304/.379 [.683]
2. - .283/.339/.425 [.764]
3. - .352/.386/.465 [.851]
4. - .251/.347/.520 [.867]
5. - .272/.303/.463 [.766]
6. - .214/.324/.411 [.735]
7. - .213/.271/.355 [.625]
8. - .250/.278/.330 [.609]
9. - .213/.289/.326 [.615]

This is the optimal lineup, by the way.

1. .352/.386/.465 [.851]
2. .251/.347/.520 [.867]
3. .272/.303/.463 [.766]
4. .283/.339/.425 [.764]
5. .214/.324/.411 [.735]
6. .250/.278/.330 [.609]
7. .265/.304/.379 [.683]
8. .213/.289/.326 [.615]
9. .213/.271/.355 [.625]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 200tang

That's an easy lineup to make. Try this one.

.283/.339/.425 [.764]
.214/.324/.411 [.735]
.352/.386/.465 [.851]
.251/.347/.520 [.867]
.272/.303/.463 [.766]
.265/.304/.379 [.683]
.213/.271/.355 [.625]
.250/.278/.330 [.609]
.213/.289/.326 [.615]

---

That wasn't too much fun. It's easier if you start with the #9 guy and work up. Maybe I'd even lead off with 3, but I don't like those OBP for the 7-9 guys

.275/400/400 - 1
.320/390/550 - 2
.300/360/410 - 3
.255/310/600 - 4
.290/320/525 - 5
.250/340/420 - 6
.240/305/410 - 7
.265/300/400 - 8
.220/290/400 - 9

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 200tang

This is the optimal lineup, by the way.

1. .352/.386/.465 [.851]
2. .251/.347/.520 [.867]
3. .272/.303/.463 [.766]
4. .283/.339/.425 [.764]
5. .214/.324/.411 [.735]
6. .250/.278/.330 [.609]
7. .265/.304/.379 [.683]
8. .213/.289/.326 [.615]
9. .213/.271/.355 [.625]

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why? bc of p.a.s?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jeffy25

why? bc of p.a.s?

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http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2010/1.../power-and-obp

read that and you'll get a better understanding. That lineup is going to make a LOT of outs, and when you get down to that many outs it's extremely important to squeeze every last run out of it, hence why you have Ichiro hitting first and Branyan hitting second to get as many home runs as you can.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 200tang

http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2010/1.../power-and-obp

read that and you'll get a better understanding. That lineup is going to make a LOT of outs, and when you get down to that many outs it's extremely important to squeeze every last run out of it, hence why you have Ichiro hitting first and Branyan hitting second to get as many home runs as you can.

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I see....the logic is based around the lineup being so terrible haha....I see.


nice :cool:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 200tang

that's an easy lineup to make. Try this one.

.213/.289/.326 [.615]
.251/.347/.520 [.867]
.272/.303/.463 [.766]
.250/.278/.330 [.609]
.265/.304/.379 [.683]
.213/.271/.355 [.625]
.283/.339/.425 [.764]
.352/.386/.465 [.851]
.214/.324/.411 [.735]

---

1 - .214/.324/.411 [.735]
2 - .283/.339/.425 [.764]
3 - .352/.386/.465 [.851]
4 - .251/.347/.520 [.867]
5 - .272/.303/.463 [.766]
6 - .265/.304/.379 [.683]
7 - .213/.271/.355 [.625]
8 - .213/.289/.326 [.615]
9 - .250/.278/.330 [.609]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jeffy25

This is the order that I created

7. - .240/305/410
5. - .290/320/525
1. - .300/360/410
2. - .275/400/400
3. - .320/390/550
4. - .255/310/600
9. - .220/290/400
6. - .250/340/420
8. - .265/300/400


But the number 9 hitter is awfully difficult to place, I maybe would swap 8 and 9, depending on speed of course.

And not so sure about one and two as well.

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I would never use someone with a .305 OBP as a leadoff guy unless everybody else on my team was, somehow, below that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

I would never use someone with a .305 OBP as a leadoff guy unless everybody else on my team was, somehow, below that.

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neither did Jeffy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 200tang

neither did Jeffy.

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Yeah...He did that weird..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

I would never use someone with a .305 OBP as a leadoff guy unless everybody else on my team was, somehow, below that.

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maybe you missed it, I put the number next to the batter and that is the order, not the order they are going down in.

See the 7. for the seventh hitter?

HGM

this is the real order

1. - .300/360/410
2. - .275/400/400
3. - .320/390/550
4. - .255/310/600
5. - .290/320/525
6. - .250/340/420
7. - .240/305/410
8. - .265/300/400
9. - .220/290/400

see the numbers ;)

Yeah, I got that after tang pointed it out to me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gosensgo101

1 - .275/400/400
2 - .300/360/410
3 - .320/390/550
4 - .290/320/525
5 - .255/310/600
6 - .250/340/420
7 - .240/305/410
8 - .265/300/400
9 - .220/290/400

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My lineup would be the same as this one, cept I'd swap the 3 & 4 hitters

Quote:

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Originally Posted by etothep

My lineup would be the same as this one, cept I'd swap the 3 & 4 hitters

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yeah, think that is the same lineup I had too. :D

ours are similar, but not the same

Yeah, I went with Jeff's lineup for the most part. I just don't like the idea of having someone with any slugging ability being a leadoff hitter, if you can avoid it. You're wasting a lot of extra base hits in instances when no one is going to be on base to be driven in.

If the Tigers had consistently hit Granderson 3rd and Magglio leadoff last season, they probably win the division.

The Book, which can be completely viewed online at Amazon, devotes an entire chapter to this. It is CHAPTER 5 — BATTING (DIS)ORDER. This might be of interest too: http://berselius.blogspot.com/2010/0...simulator.html

Something else to look at: http://www.baseballmusings.com/cgi-b...eupAnalysis.py

Thanks for starting a most interesting and useful thread. Jeff...kudos, too, to contributing Members...lotta food for thought, there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by haveacigar

If the Tigers had consistently hit Granderson 3rd and Magglio leadoff last season, they probably win the division.

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it's crazy how he became such a singles hitter

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rongar

Thanks for starting a most interesting and useful thread. Jeff...kudos, too, to contributing Members...lotta food for thought, there.

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houray for compliments :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jeffy25

it's crazy how he became such a singles hitter

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Apparently he's all buff and motivated and is going to get some of his power back.