Printable View
During the last 2 days, I have been told that Joe Mauer is the best since Fisk and that Chase Utley is a 2b without any comparison. Wow!
First, Mauer is good. I dont deny that. Is he 20 million a year good? Yankees wont bite and neither will Mets, Sox, Giants, Dodgers, plus....
Second, they called Utley the best 2b in baseball without anyone coming close. What about Pedroia? What about Cano?
They're correct on both accounts.
shut your face.Quote:
Originally Posted by 200tang
lolk :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by ragecage
So you really believe that crap. Mauer will end up with a huge contract and then realize what it means to play outside. Utley I am with you for at least this year.Quote:
They're correct on both accounts.
What does a contract have to do with being the best catcher in a long time?Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshopper
Ive heard like you have heard that he is shaking off 20 mil per year.
I don't get what money has to do with ' I have been told that Joe Mauer is the best since Fisk'.:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshopper
I was watching ESPN the other day and that is what they were saying. The next Fisk. The next huge payday. Whether I agree or not is not the question. Do you think Mauer is it?
Is what? I'm not totally understanding your question.Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshopper
He's not going to play as many career games at catcher, but he's better than Fisk.
How can you base a 26 y/o guy already better than Fisk? Mauer could end up in NY and fly an airplane and we know how that ends up. OK, bad. Still.
Mauer has all the talent in the world, but you cant ever compare him early to a HOFer. Mauer will be good. That is all I can say.
Best SINCE Fisk doesn't mean better THAN Fisk
I'm not saying his career is already better. I doubt it will be because he won't stay at catcher, but as far as talent goes, Mauer is probably the most talented player.Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshopper
Best Season EVER by Fisk : 7.1 WAR
How many season does Mauer beat that? - 2. 8.7 & 7.9 in his 5 year career.
Again, Mauer is unlikely to end up having the better career because he'll move off catcher, but his peak value is pretty much already better than Fisk and he's already avoided the 'peak and valley' seasons that Fisk had early and throughout his career.
Fili, you are right. I concede to that.
[QUOTE][I'm not saying his career is already better. I doubt it will be because he won't stay at catcher, but as far as talent goes, Mauer is probably the most talented player.
Best Season EVER by Fisk : 7.1 WAR
How many season does Mauer beat that? - 2. 8.7 & 7.9 in his 5 year career.
Again, Mauer is unlikely to end up having the better career because he'll move off catcher, but his peak value is pretty much already better than Fisk and he's already avoided the 'peak and valley' seasons that Fisk had early and throughout his career.
/QUOTE]
I already conceded. But hell. You are using pure stats. If you want to go with WAR, check out Jorge Posada at the beginning of his career. I am talking real baseball.
http://www.baseballprojection.com/war/p/posaj001.htmQuote:
Originally Posted by grasshopper
Posada's best WAR to date - 6.1
Clearly, Posada is way better than Mauer.
Nobody can carry on a logical conversation with someone who says such nonsenseQuote:
Originally Posted by grasshopper
nice quote, LOL! Learn to close your brackets, noob
Really?Quote:
Nobody can carry on a logical conversation with someone who says such nonsense
Get out of HGM's basement and watch some baseball, tang.
Well, I don't take that to mean they are refering to his entire career, they are talking about right now, maybe the next two, three or four years.Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshopper
Over that Span Mauer is the best since Fisk. Even talking real baseball.
Mauer has not had a more valuable overall career than Fisk. Mauer is, clearly, at his peak, a better player than Fisk was at his peak. He is the best catcher in the game and nobody is close.
Same goes for Chase Utley. He is the best second basemen in the game and nobody is particularly close. Utley provides superb defense with a 135 OPS+. Pedroia is a very good defender, but not close to the same caliber hitter. Cano isn't close to the same caliber defense or hitting.
Maurer is quite a bit ahead of the 2nd guy ... McCann and V.Martinez are the only 2 hitters close, but their defense is nowhere near Maurer.Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshopper
At 2nd there are quite a few close to Utley...I may even rank Kinsler or A.Hill ahead of him cause of defense.
In total I would say Pedrioa, Kinsler, B.Philips, B.Roberts, R.Cano and A.Hill are all close in my opinion.
Utley is a stud hitter at 2nd, but his defense is at best average.
In answer to the question, Maurer is worth $20mm (in baseball contract terms) he's more important than outfielders that get that kind of money.
Utley is better than both of them defensively...Quote:
Originally Posted by kellys11
No...Quote:
Originally Posted by kellys11
Utley's TotalZone scores:
2003: +1
2004: +3
2005: +15
2006: +4
2007: +9
2008: +9
2009: +8
Utley's UZR:
2003: +1
2004: +4.6
2005: +17.8
2006: +9.3
2007: +15.7
2008: +20.2
2009: +10.8
Utley's FRAA:
2003: +3
2004: +4
2005: +7
2006: -4
2007: +7
2008: +9
2009: +10
Utley is a premium defender. Brandon Phillips, Mark Ellis, and Dustin Pedroia are all close or comparable defensively. Of course, their bats don't compare.