Do your best
We are predicting which two will be the best in 2010.
While combining the past few years as well. What are the best 1-2
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Do your best
We are predicting which two will be the best in 2010.
While combining the past few years as well. What are the best 1-2
Does health count? I assume yes.
Yes, which 1-2 will be the best in baseball for 2010, your predicitions
Gallardo-Wolf aren't listed? Your anti-Milwaukee bias shines through yet again
haha,
I guess I could have made all 30 teams for this poll
I chose Lincecum and Cain.
My personal favorite was Maddux and Glavine.
I chose Beckett-Lester. I think Lester is poised for a Cy Young year though.
I homer voted :o
voted lincecum/cain.
webb/haren would be up there if not for webbs injury last year assuming he stayed consistent.
need another year similar to lasts from King Felix before I could vote for him in this.
Beckett has not been good enough to merit a vote. I love Lester but he has to be in Lincecum territory to carry Beckett in this poll...and even that may not be enough.
The second in New York is probably Vasquez (at least according to Chone projections), and they are very close. Too close to call among the top 5 (Giants, Phillies, Cardinals, Yankees and Red Sox) - but I'll say Giants as well.
I went with the Mariners - king felix, and Cliff Lee in his walk year? That should be impressive.
Beckett could be great, but has been spotty over the years. Lackey/Lester I think will pull off a true 1-2 this year.
CC or Burnett will crash and burn. Not sure about Cain enough to vote for him. And Hamels didn't impress last year...Mariners seem like the best shot.
hard to argue your selection. I think Lee is likely the best or most consistent #2 of the group (I make Haren the #1 in AZ due to Webbs missed season last year). There is no doubt Felix is the real deal. Jeffy asked to conbine the last few years in the decision making, which is why I went Linc/Cain...but Felix/Lee is just as good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alloutwar
Lee and Hernandez are both #1's...
When Beddard gets healthy and is able to pitch on a regular basis and pitch effectively in June/July, that would be a nasty 1, 2 & 3
Voted Lee-Hernandez.
As 200tang just said to me on AIM, though, the difference between the top 4 or 5 pairs is barely anything.
Lincecum-Cain. Youth and awesomeness is on their side. Interesting tidbit for the non-Giants fans ('cause Giants fans/more knowledgeable baseball fans will know): Matt Cain is younger than Lincecum. Whoa! These are two definite Cy Young candidates heading into the season.
I voted for Beckett Lester, but realistically its Hernandez and Lee
I went with Hernandez/Lee. But i think it a true toss up between them and Cain/Lincecum.
I think people are overrating Cain based on his 2009 ERA. Lincecum/Cain is certainly in the discussion, if only because Lincecum is so awesome, but Cain last year was fundamentally little different than the Cain of 2006-2008 - which is a very good pitcher but not a Cy Young contender. Cain's been remarkably consistent ever since entering the majors.
His tERA/FIP:
2005: 4.15/4.08
2006: 3.69/3.96
2007: 3.45/3.78
2008: 4.41/3.91
2009: 4.03/3.89
The difference between 2009 and 2007/2008? A BABIP of .268 (.284 and .304 in 2007/08) and a LOB% of 81.6% (72.9/75.3 07/08). Cain certainly has the talent to take a step up and enter the realm of "aces", but look past the likely unsustainable BABIP drop and LOB% spike, and he hasn't done that yet. Fundamentally, he's a 115-120ish ERA+ guy.
same could be said about king felix. he did have a monster 09, better than cain who also have a terrific year himself....but prior to that he was 115-120 era+ guy at best. both are very young.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
someone get the popcorn ready
Felix was the much better prospect with a much better scouting profile. Furthermore, unlike Cain, his 2009 was a breakout season in more than just earned run average.Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
+1 roflQuote:
Originally Posted by etothep
haha, where is that lil smilie that is sitting there eating the popcorn?
I have it on my other computer.
the question didn't ask who was the better prospect (and Cain was a pretty damn good one too) it asked the best combo taking into account the past few seasons. Felix's 09 was better, but that was never disputed. You said what Cain was prior to 09, and I merely said the same could be said of Felix. Arguably, prior to 09...Cain was better.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
If I had a choice no doubt Felix is better. I don't know why you are looking to argue that point. I'm just stating that prior to last year, Cain was very similar if not better than Felix as a whole.
So over the last few years...Lincecum > Lee....and Cain > or at least = King Felix. Felix 09 was special, superb. Cains was pretty damn good too. Even if one says Felix has been better than Cain over the past 3-4 years the difference doesn't offset Lincecum's advantage over Lee.
I voted Lee-Hernandez, but them and Lincecum-Cain is basically 1 and 1a.
I'm aware. The fact that Felix was a better prospect lends more credence to his breakout season being "real", as well as for him being better going forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
I know. My post was pointing out how , fundamentally, Cain's 2009 wasn't much different from each of his previous seasons, so, going forward, we should expect an ERA somewhere in the mid-3's. Felix, with similar pre-2009 seasons to Cain, isn't in the same boat as Cain because Felix's 2009 WAS fundamentally better than his previous seasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
Okay. Let's spell this out.Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
1) I said people are overrating Cain because of his 2009 ERA, pointing out that, fundamentally, he wasn't a very different pitcher than he was previously. Therefore, going forward, he's likely to be the guy we saw previously - a very good pitcher, ERA+ around 115-120.
2) You said the same can be said of Felix.
3) I said no, because of Felix's superior pedigree and his breakout season being more "real" (ie. not just ERA).
If your post was solely intended to point out that pre-2009 Felix was similar or worse than pre-2009 Cain, um, okay, I have no idea why pointing that out would be necessary. However, since you highlighted my sentence about overrating Cain, I assumed the "same can be said" part meant that people are overrating Felix because of 2009 and that we should expect Felix to be more like he was pre-2009.
I'll play your game - the question didn't ask which combo has been the best over the past 3-4 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
You're right, over the past 3-4 years, Lincecum/Cain have been better than Felix/Lee. Going forward, though, I see two Cy Young-caliber pitchers in Seattle, and a Cy Young-caliber pitcher and a very good pitcher in San Francisco.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
It was a Jeffy question, so I don't think anyone can be entirely sure what it meantQuote:
Originally Posted by Jeffy25
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDy_BYouPxoQuote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
lmao...i was just thinking the same after looking at it again and seeing it asked two entirely different questions that somehow mesh.Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok
1) who will be the best in 2010
2) while combining the last few years, who are the best 1-2?
'assuming' Felix pitches closer to his 09 form than prior, which should be expected...the answer to #1 is likely Seattle though its very close. The answer to #2 is also debatable but i'd gather than if looking only at #2 the majority would lean SF.
I think you deserve a pat on the back for derailing what could of been a 7 page long dice/hgm debate.Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok
Sorry...you can all take your popcorn over to the couch and watch a movieQuote:
Originally Posted by ragecage
Punto damn you FILI!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok
I actually HATE popcorn. :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok
I'm a sucker for consistency. Webb and Haren
They'd be my pick if there wasn't uncertainty over Webb's health.Quote:
Originally Posted by jpz17
No one even makes an argument for Halladay-Hamels? I thought they were definitely the top 1-2 punch
You're right. Overlooked that duo.Quote:
Originally Posted by 5dodgers5
For the same reason people are overrating Cain, people are underrating Hamels (one had a lucky 2009, the other an unlucky one). I'd take Hamels over Cain easily, and Halladay and Lincecum are probably the two leading preseason Cy Young candidates, so they're a push...which means, yeah, I'd take them over Lincecum/Cain, though I still prefer Felix/Lee to them.
I too went for Webb/Haren because of the consistency. I think Webb is the type of pitcher who can bounce back very well after an injury. I don't think he will Liriano on the baseball world.
Personally I think that Lee/Hernandez could easily overtake them though. I then place Cain/Lincecum #3 because of Cain's consistency. I think it is a push with Halladay/Lincecum and I take Cain over Hamels. I think Cain is the better pitcher and Hamels is the better thrower. I think Hamels has more potential than Cain, but I think Cain has a better chance at pitching near his ceiling...so far. If Hamels pitches close to his 2008 season then I think they could be the best in 2010.
I'm going to make a case for Verlander/Scherzer. They both play in front of very solid defenses, and they probably have the raw stuff to match up with anyone on that list.
If I'm being fair, Hernandez/Lee is more likely to be better in 2010, but I'm voting for Verlander/Scherzer. If Verlander gets some better luck, and Scherzer takes a step forward in development, the chance is there that they could be the best.