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1/4 of your payroll for an MVP? If the Mariners can field a competitive team with 40M being given to Ichiro & Felix next year, then the Twins can win with the same payroll.
You must not understand how team salaries are allocated. It's not uncommon that one player makes up a large majority of the payroll, especially on contenders. I guess it's understandable from a fan of the Red Sox, though.
1 - ....not even gonna waste my time..Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
2 - that's why they're close to a contract and he's said he wants to stay....
3 - That's why you structure the contract differently than just 20M every year.
Lol. Yeah. New stadium and PR the only reason. Nothing to do with him being an awesome player or anything. Solely new stadium and PR.Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
When you have one season left with one of the best players in the game, and you have a team surrounding him that's capable of contending, and you're unlikely to get a fair trade, I don't see why you wouldn't go for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
There's a difference between misreading and not reading. You're first instinct is ALWAYS to be an ass to me, so, forgive me, I'm going to be an ass to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
why must I not understand lol??? you can disagree...fine, but stop talking to me like i'm a 12 year old. Yes, 1/4 of their payroll may be fine for a year or two, but we're talking 7-10 and the uncertainty with that is something i don't think they should risk. If he does get hurt worst 3-5 years from now, then you've got 1/4 or your payroll with no return. With the Mariners, one they have a larger payroll historically, two Felix is very young and a horse and three, Ichiro isn't locked up for 7 to 10 years. If Mauer could be signed for 25 mil per for 2 or 3 years i'd do that in a heartbeat...maybe even more per year. Long term 7-10 is very risky.Quote:
Originally Posted by 200tang
EVERY 7-10 year deal is risky regardless of the player. To be honest, I'd rather have Mauer for 7 years than Felix for five. Pitchers are way scarier than catchers who can move to 1B/Dh and still be a top player.
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by etothep
we disagree on that one then too. considering Mauers history of injuries (knee and back are most concerning to me) i'd take Felix for 5 over Mauer for 7. And again, the team i'm on plays a role in this decision. Seattle has more room for error than the twins financially IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by 200tang
Its ok to disagree...i don't get why you're talking as if my comments and opinions are so that outrageous though. While some disagree, to me the only outrageous thing discussed is letting Mauer walk for nothing (yes i realize there' are picks involved). Not when for example Beckett brought in Ramirez and allowed them to move another high salary contract. To think they can't get a great prospect or two that are near ready for Mauer is a bit unrealistic IMO.
Do you also realize that he's the best player they're probably going to have for a while and that they're likely the best team in their division and that this might be their best shot at contending for a while if Mauer does in fact leave and that without Mauer, their team is significantly weakened?Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
yes...although I think they could bring in some very good talent for him that would be near MLB ready. Do you at least agree with that?Quote:
Do you also realize that he's the best player they're probably going to have for a while
I personally like DET better in their division but agree they are close. Yes this might be their best shot at contending for awhile, but they have a young team, always a good farm, and Mauer could bring good talent back. I see no reason that they can't remain "competitive" for the next few years even if dealing him. Yes maybe not "as competitive"..but then again, having him as 1/4 of the payroll may mandate they have to lose other players in the next few years than they may long term be less competitive with him and that contract than without him. Especially if additional injury ever strikes.Quote:
and that they're likely the best team in their division and that this might be their best shot at contending for a while if Mauer does in fact leave
Of course it is.Quote:
and that without Mauer, their team is significantly weakened?
1-22 *facepalm*
I hesitate to ask but :confused: .Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh123123123
He's facepalming at dickay because he's the only one who voted yes and twenty two people voted no.Quote:
Originally Posted by actionjackson
It's not a bad thing to stand out from the crowd. You can stand out on principle, stand out because you love to argue/enjoy going against the grain, but sometimes you stand out because you're just plain wrong. Nothing wrong with being wrong, provided that in time you can come to realize it and learn from it...
Oh Noes! The wrath of dickay will soon rain down upon you :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by actionjackson
It would be a huge mistake if the Twins do not resign Mauer. The only good reason why the twins won't be able to resign him is if Mauer doesn't want to be in Minnesota. It would be utterly stupid to trade Mauer. He deserves at Least a 5 year deal. Even 7 or 10 years I would say would be ok thou Risky. Trading Mauer isn't an option...I am not understanding shacky's reasoning...
shacky?
shacky = dickay....former callsignQuote:
Originally Posted by 200tang
Haha, I didn't even know I did that... Long live BMO ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
Close vote. But the true question is can they afford to keep him in the future?
1 vote yes = dickay the Minny GM?
If you aren't going to trust your team to compete with arguably the best position player in baseball, who is surrounded by a pretty solid core (Morneau, Nathan, Blackburn, Hardy, Hudson, Kubel, Span, all good players), when are you going to compete?
Plus, with Smith's trading track record for good players, I woudln't trust him to deal another star.
how did you fail to mention Punto?
Best player in MLB
i prefer to be competitive every year than for one or two. i fear having 1/4 of your payroll spent on one guy who youre tied to forever in baseball years doesn't allow for that. The twins have been successful over the last decade for the most part because they've drafted and developed extremely well and have been able to make very good use of their limited resources financially. Trading him would bring back some significant talent as well.Quote:
If you aren't going to trust your team to compete with arguably the best position player in baseball, who is surrounded by a pretty solid core (Morneau, Nathan, Blackburn, Hardy, Hudson, Kubel, Span, all good players), when are you going to compete?
How many catchers would have been productive in the latter half of a 10 year contract signed at age 27?? Not Piazza, not Bench, maybe pudge barely but definetely not worth 20 mil per. And none of them at age 27 had back or knee injuries on their resume that I can recall. Sure, Mauer could be moved to 1st or DH'd after the demanding position takes more of a toll. Yeah, I want to chance 1/4th of my payroll that my beaten up catcher will be able to change positions of DH and still be "as" productive with the bat for the latter 3-5 years of his contract!?! No thanks.
I've talked mostly about a "7" year contract because thats the max i can fathom...but as you all know most of the speculation has been closer to 10 year.
Fair....then the twins should get a new GM if they themselves fair that way.Quote:
Plus, with Smith's trading track record for good players, I woudln't trust him to deal another star.
And sometimes, when you have one of the best players in baseball and he's about to leave for free agency, you need to make the most of it and go for it while you still have the best shot at it, and then focus on rebuilding.Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
Chances are Mauer WILL be moved to another position in a couple years, regardless of his contract status, unless he does prove to be durable behind the plate. And you keep bringing up this 1/4th of the payroll thing while completely ignoring what 200tang has repeatedly said about contract structure.Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
Oh, and, if Piazza signed a 10 year contract at age 27, you'd have gotten 10 seasons, at an average of 129 games per year, with a 140 OPS+. I'd take that.
If the Twins were in a situation like, say, the Padres are in - no realistic hope of contending and a relatively weak farm system - I'd say that they should look to trade Mauer. However, they're not in that position. They're the favorites in their division according to most people whose job it is to project such things, in large part due to Mauer, and they have a very good farm system. My optimal course of action would be to sign him to a 5-7 year front-loaded contract.
If there was absolutely no way we'd reach an agreement, I'd focus on winning this year and then, come July, if I'm somehow definitely out of it, THEN explore the option of trading him, but if, as expected, I'm contending or far out in front, I'd look to improve the team for the stretch run and the playoffs and hopefully give my fans a great season. If I were a fan, I'd much rather see my team do well and let their superstar walk than have their superstar traded away when the team actually has a good shot with him, especially considering the Twins do have a strong farm system that will help them contend in the coming years without Mauer.
It's scary to think how much Pujols and Holliday will lock up for the Cardinals by 2012-13Quote:
Originally Posted by 200tang
Words to live by :)Quote:
Originally Posted by actionjackson
Their farm system is pretty good. They even have some good players graduated last year - Latos/Blanks/E. Cabrera?Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
I am interested to see if Cabrera will end up more like Bonifacio or more like Figgins.
Baseball America has their farm system ranked 20th (and the Twins 7th) which is what I looked at before saying that.Quote:
Originally Posted by 200tang
Most likely, not as bad as Bonifacio or as good as Figgins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffy25
Everth Cabrera didn't graduate from the Padres system.Quote:
Originally Posted by 200tang
rarely would i let one of the best 27 year olds in the game leave for nothing, when i could get substantial return for him in a trade. if they know they can't resign him...i don't care how much of a lead I had at the deadline i'd trade him. i wouldn't say i'd always handle it that way, but in this given situation absolutely.Quote:
And sometimes, when you have one of the best players in baseball and he's about to leave for free agency, you need to make the most of it and go for it while you still have the best shot at it, and then focus on rebuilding.
I don't think a playoff run is "nothing."Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
Never would I try away one of the best players in the game during a playoff race unless I was getting back a player equally as good or better.
Like HAC said, you might as well just forfeit the season. What's that telling your fans? "We've got a great shot at the playoffs right now, but, since this guy's going to free agency at the end of the year, we're going to trade him and downgrade from "the best in the game" to "gaping hole" behind the plate."
This is still going on? Seriously, I don't know why you even bother.
Should the Capitals trade Ovechkin????
Actually, the Capitals are gonna have to trade some players cause of cap issues but it won't be Ovechkin.
But seriously, I'm glad nwuhockey and dickay are on the same page.
dickay is NWU.