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More likely an opportunity to express my deep seated loathing of the general Yankee fan who can't understand why anyone would want to give up franchise player X and who sees the 25 teams outside of the AL East as farm teams that exist only for them to plunder should the "need" arise. :rolleyes: ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by etothep
If you're going to trade your best player in the middle of a contending year because you're afraid that you can't win in the playoffs, what's the point? Why even bother to field a team and play baseball?
I already posted that. Don't worry, dickay filled me in on his 'logic'.Quote:
Originally Posted by haveacigar
But really, what IS the point? If you're going to just pretend like you can't win in the playoffs why even play the season? Might as well just call off the entire season and go straight to a Phillies/Yankees world series for the rest of time.
I think so yes. To me it says worse to let your best star walk for basically nothing, or at least the far off unknown. IMO, if they weren't about to go into a new stadium....they likely would've already begun talks to trade him. Its because of the new stadium that I think they will likely resign him. I say that because trading him, or letting him walk are both bad PR moves and going into a new stadium its really likely the worst move they could make.Quote:
Keeping your star player and letting him walk to free agency is worse than saying "We're going to trade our best player even though we're contenders."? Uh.
For the future of the team, I think its better to trade him than to resign him if the deal is in fact 7 plus years at around 20 per. Likely, they will resign him and I think the new stadium and PR is the sole reason...nothing to do with competing.
Fair enough....I just don't think playing for one season and letting a talent like him walk is the answer. And as I said...i think in their position its too risky and pricey a contract to sign.Quote:
I don't see why they wouldn't be competitive for the World Series title if they're good enough to get into the playoffs. I don't think giving up on the season - and trading your best player is doing that in any realistic scenario - is the answer.
I'm sure he is. He'd still be too pricey a contract for me. Likely 1/4th of my payroll as I don't see the twins maintaining a 90 mil payroll in coming years even with the new stadium. They've averages probably 65 mil per or less over the last 5 years. Even if it remains at 90 mil, his contract would be a significant portion of that.Quote:
His bat is more than good enough, and he more than athletic enough, to move to another position and still be among the best players in the game.
sucks having your mantra thrown in your face. You do realize you call people out for "not reading" many times a week in these threads lol?? And you constantly put words in my mouth, so forgive me please now that I get upset when it happens.Quote:
Yes, sorry, I misread it as "No way is Min giving him a 7 year+ contract."
But, that's okay. Instead of just correcting me you'd rather be an ass.
Thanks, these kind of childish comments are always so good for good forum discussion.Quote:
Sorry, you are stupid and your 'logic' is 'illogical'.
I agree with most of this, although obviously I dont' think its "stupid" to trade Mauer or that they won't have to slash payroll. Even if they keep it up around 90 mil over the next few years, you're talking about a guy thats nearly 1/4th of your payroll. I think he can bring back some great young prospects that they can keep on the cheap for many years in dealing Mauer. They can then keep some of their developing talent who won't ask for nearly as much or 7 plus year contracts. (btw, 7 years is the minimum for Mauer, rumors has the talks at around 10 years. outrageous IMO)Quote:
You're a Yankee fan right? You've never had to deal with this situation before, so your opinion holds less water in this discussion and your black and white stance makes me lean towards your opinion holding no water. It's not a "stupid idea". It's just a "stupid idea" in this context. In rebuilding mode it might make sense, although there are other players that would make more sense if one had to slash the payroll. I don't think the Twins are going to have to slash payroll. I think they can keep Mauer, Morneau, Nathan etc. I also know it's not a stupid idea because my team has just traded its best player ever in a deal that helped all four teams. It's the kind of deal teams make in a rebuilding phase, but for you that might as well be some as yet unnamed disease because you will never have to experience it.
I'd love it if they could keep him, and as I said...i think they will. However, I think there reasons for keeping him are more for their fan base going into a new stadium than for the fact they may be competitive this year.
because I think 1) if they are truly contending at midseason than even if trading him they may still be able to be competitive and 2) because to me letting a talent like him just walk is a sin and finally 3) because of 2, if they keep him they likely signed him and if I were their GM a 7-10 year deal near 20 mil per is just way too much for that teams long termQuote:
Originally Posted by haveacigar
1/4 of your payroll for an MVP? If the Mariners can field a competitive team with 40M being given to Ichiro & Felix next year, then the Twins can win with the same payroll.
You must not understand how team salaries are allocated. It's not uncommon that one player makes up a large majority of the payroll, especially on contenders. I guess it's understandable from a fan of the Red Sox, though.
1 - ....not even gonna waste my time..Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
2 - that's why they're close to a contract and he's said he wants to stay....
3 - That's why you structure the contract differently than just 20M every year.
Lol. Yeah. New stadium and PR the only reason. Nothing to do with him being an awesome player or anything. Solely new stadium and PR.Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
When you have one season left with one of the best players in the game, and you have a team surrounding him that's capable of contending, and you're unlikely to get a fair trade, I don't see why you wouldn't go for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
There's a difference between misreading and not reading. You're first instinct is ALWAYS to be an ass to me, so, forgive me, I'm going to be an ass to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay
why must I not understand lol??? you can disagree...fine, but stop talking to me like i'm a 12 year old. Yes, 1/4 of their payroll may be fine for a year or two, but we're talking 7-10 and the uncertainty with that is something i don't think they should risk. If he does get hurt worst 3-5 years from now, then you've got 1/4 or your payroll with no return. With the Mariners, one they have a larger payroll historically, two Felix is very young and a horse and three, Ichiro isn't locked up for 7 to 10 years. If Mauer could be signed for 25 mil per for 2 or 3 years i'd do that in a heartbeat...maybe even more per year. Long term 7-10 is very risky.Quote:
Originally Posted by 200tang
EVERY 7-10 year deal is risky regardless of the player. To be honest, I'd rather have Mauer for 7 years than Felix for five. Pitchers are way scarier than catchers who can move to 1B/Dh and still be a top player.
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by etothep
we disagree on that one then too. considering Mauers history of injuries (knee and back are most concerning to me) i'd take Felix for 5 over Mauer for 7. And again, the team i'm on plays a role in this decision. Seattle has more room for error than the twins financially IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by 200tang
Its ok to disagree...i don't get why you're talking as if my comments and opinions are so that outrageous though. While some disagree, to me the only outrageous thing discussed is letting Mauer walk for nothing (yes i realize there' are picks involved). Not when for example Beckett brought in Ramirez and allowed them to move another high salary contract. To think they can't get a great prospect or two that are near ready for Mauer is a bit unrealistic IMO.
Do you also realize that he's the best player they're probably going to have for a while and that they're likely the best team in their division and that this might be their best shot at contending for a while if Mauer does in fact leave and that without Mauer, their team is significantly weakened?Quote:
Originally Posted by dickay