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Re: Barry Bonds, beating the Hall of Fame debate to death
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Originally Posted by
Arctic Blast
Personally, I don't give a crap anymore, BUT...it WAS NOT LEGAL. Last I checked, the law of the country supersedes the rules of a sports league.
If you are just correcting someone's argument fine - which I think is your point.
But if you think that breaking the law is actually a reason to not let someone into the Hall, then the Hall of Fame is going to get very small. Especially if you include all the players that are only suspected of breaking a law, not convicted. Ruth drank during prohibition, Raines did cocaine, and getting ahead of ourselves, Lincecum has now been given a ticket for marijuana possession. Seriously, Cobb may have, or may have not, killed someone. If he is in the Hall, suspicion of breaking the illegal substances act is entirely irrelevant.
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Re: Barry Bonds, beating the Hall of Fame debate to death
Yep, was just correcting the post. It wasn't legal, period, so let's stop saying it was.
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Re: Barry Bonds, beating the Hall of Fame debate to death
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Originally Posted by
Arctic Blast
Yep, was just correcting the post. It wasn't legal, period, so let's stop saying it was.
The only thing we KNOW McGwire did was androstenedoine, which people still like to "use against him", and it WAS legal AND unbanned.
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Re: Barry Bonds, beating the Hall of Fame debate to death
my 2 cents..bonds should get in first ballot.
do i think he will...no. especially based upon him basically being blackballed from mlb the past couple seasons. i think that exemplifies the hatred towards him.
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Re: Barry Bonds, beating the Hall of Fame debate to death
Again, I wasn't referring to a specific case or person, but this particular line from Jeffy's post :
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Originally Posted by Jeffy25
I just don't see how you can really hold it against the player's if what they did was legal or not monitored by baseball.
In cases of proven steroid use, that WAS NOT legal.
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Re: Barry Bonds, beating the Hall of Fame debate to death
But it WASN'T monitored by baseball, so it'd fall under the second half of that "or" statement. :)
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Re: Barry Bonds, beating the Hall of Fame debate to death
...and not be legal. Like I said.
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Re: Barry Bonds, beating the Hall of Fame debate to death
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Originally Posted by
Arctic Blast
...and not be legal. Like I said.
Right, but nothing Jeffy said was wrong. He doesn't agree with holding things against players if what they did was either legal or unmonitored.
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Re: Barry Bonds, beating the Hall of Fame debate to death
To top it off, the federal steroid laws are kind of stupid, anyway, The motivation for passing them seemed largely to be to keep professional athletes from using them to enhance performance, which IMO isn't something that the government should be worried about anyway.
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Re: Barry Bonds, beating the Hall of Fame debate to death
I still say Taco Bell is a horrible establishment.
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Re: Barry Bonds, beating the Hall of Fame debate to death
By the way, an example of what I was talking about before in regards to andro, from Lord Haw-Haw:
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Disqualified List (own personal list*)
25. Mark McGwire. Admitted andro use made him into a home run hero before moving into pariah territory. Projected percentage: 28 percent.
Using a legal, unbanned substance = disqualified from the HoF.
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Re: Barry Bonds, beating the Hall of Fame debate to death
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Originally Posted by
HoustonGM
By the way, an example of what I was talking about before in regards to andro, from
Lord Haw-Haw:
Using a legal, unbanned substance = disqualified from the HoF.
Yeah, disqualifying McGwire because of the andro would kind of be like disqualifying Hank Aaron because he ate chocolate or something.
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Re: Barry Bonds, beating the Hall of Fame debate to death
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Originally Posted by
dps
Yeah, disqualifying McGwire because of the andro would kind of be like disqualifying Hank Aaron because he ate chocolate or something.
agree 100%. However, since its been pretty much engrained that HOF induction is NOT solely indicative of your statistical performance....i have no issue with voters taking umbrage with his performance in front of the Congress. Its no different than what voters have always done, which is play favorite.
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Re: Barry Bonds, beating the Hall of Fame debate to death
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Originally Posted by
dickay
agree 100%. However, since its been pretty much engrained that HOF induction is NOT solely indicative of your statistical performance....i have no issue with voters taking umbrage with his performance in front of the Congress. Its no different than what voters have always done, which is play favorite.
I take umbrage with someone pleading the 5th in front of an unnecessary grandstanding Congressional hearing outweighing an otherwise obviously qualified record.
Of course, I don't think the Congressional performance is what most voters are using to vote against him. It's just simply that he has been connected to steroids.
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Re: Barry Bonds, beating the Hall of Fame debate to death
Though I did just read this part, which suggests the Congressional hearing is at least part of what Heyman is using against McGwire...
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Below is my ballot (the top six got my vote, the others I listed in my order of preference, with Mark McGwire and David Segui not being considered by me for drug issues -- McGwire for being an unrepentant alleged steroid user who stonewalled Congress, and Segui for being an admitted HGH user who's undeserving on merit, anyway.)
though Heyman is really all over the map in his justifications, with regards to both McGwire and others, so who knows. I don't doubt that the Congress thing played a role with Heyman and other votes, but I don't think it mattered much to most of the "No" voters on McGwire. As I said above, I think it's mostly just the connection with steroids.
Also, apparently you're supposed to repent for stuff you've been alleged to have done?
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Re: Barry Bonds, beating the Hall of Fame debate to death
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Originally Posted by
HoustonGM
Though I did just read this part, which suggests the Congressional hearing is at least part of what Heyman is using against McGwire...
though Heyman is really all over the map in his justifications, with regards to both McGwire and others, so who knows. I don't doubt that the Congress thing played a role with Heyman and other votes, but I don't think it mattered much to most of the "No" voters on McGwire. As I said above, I think it's mostly just the connection with steroids.
Also, apparently you're supposed to repent for stuff you've been alleged to have done?
I don't have a problem with educated voters drawing their own conclusions and formulating their own opinions. By pleading the 5th and refusing to discuss it he left that door open. The HOF for quite awhile has been about more than just stats. I am not a fan of that, but it is what it is. Knowing that....I don't take umbrage with them making their own opinions regarding whether or not they believe anything McGwire has said. If they vote no because of Andro...then yes, that I do take umbrage. Hope that clarifies it for ya. ;)
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Re: Barry Bonds, beating the Hall of Fame debate to death
Educated? You give them too much credit.
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Re: Barry Bonds, beating the Hall of Fame debate to death
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Originally Posted by
ragecage
I still say Taco Bell is a horrible establishment.
I like Taco Bell. It's cheap and I get more food for my buck than McDonalds or other fast food establishments. All Taco Bell needs is to add a play area and a Happy Meal and my whole family would be happy....
