Pierre vs. Podsednik

Podsednik does walk at a non horrid rate, but he also hits for considerably lower average then Pierre

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Originally Posted by kenny1234

I'd prefer Dunn to Pierre.

And Pierre had a good year last year, primarily because he got lucky when he did hit the ball - a BABIP 30 points higher than normal. I'd expect that he will drop back to .330-.340 OBP this year - which is OK for a very good defensive centerfielder, especially if he is hitting 7th or 8th in your lineup. Whether he is a very good centerfielder is another question - I would probably project him as above average.

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no dispute there.. id take a team of dunn's before a team of Pierre's... tho to me the pierre's would be more fun to watch lol

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Originally Posted by FloydtheBarber

Podsednik does walk at a non horrid rate, but he also hits for considerably lower average then Pierre

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which makes it a moot point...

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Originally Posted by TheNamelessPoet

no dispute there.. id take a team of dunn's before a team of Pierre's... tho to me the pierre's would be more fun to watch lol


which makes it a moot point...

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That is why i said "but"

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Originally Posted by yomamaimontv

What are the stats you guys are using to judge this?

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I personally like OPS for hitters 3-7. For my leadoff hitter I like OBP with good, smart speed. For my second hitter I like a very high contact rate. OBP and a low strike-out % (Pedroia). If you want to get a decent explanation of the stats used around here, then sift through the big argument that is the "How does one define the greatest hitter of all time?" thread. It is on the third page of sports talk. HGM and another guy are arguing the whole thread, but they are throwing stats at each other like bullets.

Also read Jeffy's current top 9 position threads.

I don't think Juan Pierre is above average as a center fielder anymore. He's only had 1 above average defensive season at CF since 2003.

Guys be nice Juan Pierre is like 12 years old

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Originally Posted by Rexington

I personally like OPS for hitters 3-7. For my leadoff hitter I like OBP with good, smart speed. For my second hitter I like a very high contact rate. OBP and a low strike-out % (Pedroia). If you want to get a decent explanation of the stats used around here, then sift through the big argument that is the "How does one define the greatest hitter of all time?" thread. It is on the third page of sports talk. HGM and another guy are arguing the whole thread, but they are throwing stats at each other like bullets.

Also read Jeffy's current top 9 position threads.

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Thanks everybody for the imput. From what I gather, Pierre is an upgrade even if it is slightly. He might not be an ideal leadoff hitter, but after looking at what else is around the league, only a handful of teams have what many of you guys would consider an ideal leadoff man. So all things considered I think it was a good pickup. I actually did read through the above mentioned thread and several like it. I chuckled to myself, thinking only on the internet could these arguments really take place. The thought of two guys in a Chicago sports bar arguing about stats such as WAR or VORP or BABIP , over a beer is a funny thought. Maybe though someday it will come to that as I see these stats seem to be coming more and more mainstream. Thanks again for the introduction to these interesting stats and their use. One thing I was wondering does anyone know how much of this stuff do GM's consider in real life?? Obviously it must vary team by team, but I would like to think that Ken Williams is pretty well schooled in the application of the sabr stats. You would think that would have to be a prerequisite.

Besides the obvious of rickey...

good leadoff guys are guys like Lofton in his prime, even Jeter is I think a very good leadoff hitter. Furcall was decent... tho I dont think he got On base enought if IRC.

Damon is like the PERFECT OBP tho with his lowish SO rate he is a better #2 in my opinion... I like speed if possible in the #2 hole as well

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Originally Posted by TheNamelessPoet

Besides the obvious of rickey...

good leadoff guys are guys like Lofton in his prime, even Jeter is I think a very good leadoff hitter. Furcall was decent... tho I dont think he got On base enought if IRC.

Damon is like the PERFECT OBP tho with his lowish SO rate he is a better #2 in my opinion... I like speed if possible in the #2 hole as well

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+1
Its funny whenever I hear leadoff hitter..I think Rickey (as I assume Rickey thinks Rickey too).

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Originally Posted by yomamaimontv

Thanks everybody for the imput. From what I gather, Pierre is an upgrade even if it is slightly. He might not be an ideal leadoff hitter, but after looking at what else is around the league, only a handful of teams have what many of you guys would consider an ideal leadoff man. So all things considered I think it was a good pickup. I actually did read through the above mentioned thread and several like it. I chuckled to myself, thinking only on the internet could these arguments really take place. The thought of two guys in a Chicago sports bar arguing about stats such as WAR or VORP or BABIP , over a beer is a funny thought. Maybe though someday it will come to that as I see these stats seem to be coming more and more mainstream. Thanks again for the introduction to these interesting stats and their use. One thing I was wondering does anyone know how much of this stuff do GM's consider in real life?? Obviously it must vary team by team, but I would like to think that Ken Williams is pretty well schooled in the application of the sabr stats. You would think that would have to be a prerequisite.

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Believe it or not, there are a few GMs that either have no concept of SABR stats, have no desire to understand them, or actively dislike them.

All of the good GMs embrace them.

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Originally Posted by haveacigar

Believe it or not, there are a few GMs that either have no concept of SABR stats, have no desire to understand them, or actively dislike them.

All of the good GMs embrace them.

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Well also remember not all GM's have the same deck of cards (money) to work with. Plus if a manager's personality isn't taken into effect, then that would be absurd also. Managers have a preference in a certain style of play they like to us (or at least they like to say so)

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Originally Posted by reflections

Well also remember not all GM's have the same deck of cards (money) to work with. Plus if a manager's personality isn't taken into effect, then that would be absurd also. Managers have a preference in a certain style of play they like to us (or at least they like to say so)

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well certainly, and that's often where the Strawman of Sabr haters have it wrong.
No one really advocates using only Sabr stats .. most would say to never, under any circumstance not take into account any statsitc or scouting report. .. instead use as as many sources as a possible to form a more complete picture.

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Originally Posted by reflections

Well also remember not all GM's have the same deck of cards (money) to work with. Plus if a manager's personality isn't taken into effect, then that would be absurd also. Managers have a preference in a certain style of play they like to us (or at least they like to say so)

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Sure, but I think I can comfortably say that any GM who makes no attempt to understand or takes an active distaste of SABR stats is a bad GM.

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Originally Posted by reflections

Well also remember not all GM's have the same deck of cards (money) to work with. Plus if a manager's personality isn't taken into effect, then that would be absurd also. Managers have a preference in a certain style of play they like to us (or at least they like to say so)

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The ones with less money would probably find it more prudent to expand their horizons than the ones with more money.