Is defense really that important in baseball?

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Originally Posted by Alloutwar

while some other clubs like the Phillies do well while snubbing them completely.

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It's funny that even though they snub them they had 3 gold glovers at 3B/SS/2B last year and Ryan Howard by most accounts is average. I have never looked at their OF, but I'd guess it's below average in the corners.

However, it does seem like the new Phillies management doesn't care about defense..or age for that matter. It will be interesting to look at that team in 4-5 years.

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Originally Posted by 200tang

It's funny that even though they snub them they had 3 gold glovers at 3B/SS/2B last year and Ryan Howard by most accounts is average. I have never looked at their OF, but I'd guess it's below average in the corners.

However, it does seem like the new Phillies management doesn't care about defense..or age for that matter. It will be interesting to look at that team in 4-5 years.

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Victorino and Werth are both above average at their positions for their careers - though Victorino didn't have a great year last year. Ibanez is probably below-average though he posted a UZR 8 runs above average last year.

Anyway, I took the article as saying that they ignore the new defensive metrics - not that they ignore defense. If they trust their scouts to be more accurate than the data at evaluating expected performance, then there isn't much reason to worry about the statistics. And since we have no idea what their scouts are saying, it is difficult to evaluate that position.

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Originally Posted by kenny1234

Victorino and Werth are both above average at their positions for their careers - though Victorino didn't have a great year last year. Ibanez is probably below-average though he posted a UZR 8 runs above average last year.

Anyway, I took the article as saying that they ignore the new defensive metrics - not that they ignore defense. If they trust their scouts to be more accurate than the data at evaluating expected performance, then there isn't much reason to worry about the statistics. And since we have no idea what their scouts are saying, it is difficult to evaluate that position.

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Response to the bold sentence: I think trusting their scouts more is a perfectly fair position, but I still think it's foolish to completely ignore the statistics.

At any rate, I was going to post the same thing as the underlined sentence.

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Originally Posted by 200tang

However, it does seem like the new Phillies management doesn't care about defense..or age for that matter. It will be interesting to look at that team in 4-5 years.

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One other thing, I don't think the comment about age makes sense. They are a team with a large group of very good players at their peak age - and when you are in that position you add established talent to try and win now. They probably don't care about what they look like 4-5 years from now - and they shouldn't. If they can make a run of making the playoffs for the next 3-4 years before these guys start to fade - that would be a successful strategy.

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Originally Posted by kenny1234

One other thing, I don't think the comment about age makes sense. They are a team with a large group of very good players at their peak age - and when you are in that position you add established talent to try and win now. They probably don't care about what they look like 4-5 years from now - and they shouldn't. If they can make a run of making the playoffs for the next 3-4 years before these guys start to fade - that would be a successful strategy.

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I think the "age" comment was regarding the multiyear contracts handed out to guys like Raul Ibanez and Placido Polanco.

I haven't read this article in full yet, but it seems like a good primer for anybody interested in learning about UZR.

http://www.blessyouboys.com/2010/1/9...te-zone-rating

ask bill bucker ;)

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

I think the "age" comment was regarding the multiyear contracts handed out to guys like Raul Ibanez and Placido Polanco.

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This. We're talking about the CURRENT FO. The CURRENT FO has given contracts to Ibanez/Polanco. Unless you wanna talk about the past FO, but that's like bashing JackZ because of the Bedard trade. Stupid.

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Originally Posted by dickay

Someone posted this in the Lowell thread;



1) Can someone please explain to me what UZR is, and how its determined.

2) Is one season really enough of a sample size to determine if a team or player is bad or good defensively? Bad luck, plays ruled errors that were hits, players who play with injuries....there seems to be alot of variables that come into any equation.

3) I hear of Bay being a poor defender. Since when did LF defense matter in Boston? Yes, if I had two guys near even in offensive performance i'll take the better "defender" but how much offense is needed to offset the poor defense?

4) Again regarding Bay or any defender who remains in their prime, are these statistics for defense solid enough to truly say as they do for Bay, he was a good defender early in his career and is now subpar? I again go back to sample sizes and variables.

Appreciate all unbiased input.

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The current trend amongst the younger crowd of GMs is that there is no difference between a run prevented or a run scored. Its all Zero sum.

Theo has been making his moves in Boston along those lines...

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Originally Posted by Mightyzug

The current trend amongst the younger crowd of GMs is that there is no difference between a run prevented or a run scored. Its all Zero sum.

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That isn't a "trend." There IS no difference between a run prevented and a run scored.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

That isn't a "trend." There IS no difference between a run prevented and a run scored.

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No, but it is a trend to BELIEVE that a run prevented is the same as a run scored.

I suppose.. lol

I guess a more accurate phrasing would be "The current trend is placing an emphasis on defense." :)

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

I suppose.. lol

I guess a more accurate phrasing would be "The current trend is placing an emphasis on defense." :)

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Yes, but I'm not an LSAT question writer, so I don't deal in "more accurates."

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Originally Posted by haveacigar

Yes, but I'm not an LSAT question writer, so I don't deal in "more accurates."

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Do you still hate fish?

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Originally Posted by 200tang

Do you still hate fish?

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I hate you now.