Detroit/New York/Arizona 3-way deal

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Originally Posted by dickay

I like the deal for the Tigers. Granderson is OK...but the Yanks did give up IMO a fair amount to acquire IMO just an OK slightly above avg player. Coke gave them alot of innings last year, and Kennedy and Jackson have good potential. Granderson is gonna be pricey, but then again its the Yanks so for them dollars mean sh!t. I actually like the Tigers farm, and this isn't exactly a complete overhaul for them, i kind of like what they're doing.

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Granderson is not a "slightly above average player." I don't know why so many people seem to be underrating him so much. He's an above average hitter with plus defense in center field and excellent baserunning. That's an all-star caliber player.

Also, Granderson is signed to a relatively cheap long-term deal:

10:$5.5M
11:$8.25M
12:$10M
13:$13M club option ($2M buyout)

The 2013 option price increases under the following conditions:

$15M if MVP (1st - 5th) in 2011 or 2012
$14M if All Star in 2011 or 2012
$13.5M if All Star selection in 2011 or 2012

For a player of Granderson's caliber, that money is chump change for the Yankees.

In this thread, I see two consistent trends - an underrating of Curtis Granderson and an overrating of the Yankees prospects. Austin Jackson is the only one of any real significance that they gave up, and that's assuming he develops properly. He can't be expected to maintain a .300 batting average because of his high strikeout rate and he does not have the power or walk rate to be a plus offensive player with a low batting average. Curtis Granderson is essentially Jackson's ceiling, and that's if he suddenly sprouts power.

Ian Kennedy isn't anything special. By serious prospect evaluators, he was always seen as a solid #3/4 starter with a high chance of reaching that and a slight chance of being slightly better than that, but it remains to be seen how well Kennedy has recovered from his aneurysm.

Phil Coke is a homer prone lefty reliever. Those guys are plentiful. He's of zero consequence.

The thing about the Yankees is, anything they give up is easily replaced. Coke is pretty expendable with Mike Dunn coming along. They obviously don't need Jackson anymore. And Kennedy hasn't been a factor for a long time anyway. Even if you don't think Granderson is all that great, what do they actually lose?

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Originally Posted by haveacigar

The thing about the Yankees is, anything they give up is easily replaced. Coke is pretty expendable with Mike Dunn coming along. They obviously don't need Jackson anymore. And Kennedy hasn't been a factor for a long time anyway. Even if you don't think Granderson is all that great, what do they actually lose?

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Exactly.

And, plus, the Yankees are in a different position from most other teams. They're a contender every year. Acquiring a player in his prime signed to a cheap deal by giving up a minor leaguer whose absolute best-case scenario is turning into that player they acquired....well, that's something a perennial contender needs to do to maintain that status.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

He can't be expected to maintain a .300 batting average because of his high strikeout rate and he does not have the power or walk rate to be a plus offensive player with a low batting average.

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You forgot to mention his insane and unrepeatable .39X BABIP

And yeah, I don't know where all this Granderson hate is coming from.

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Originally Posted by 200tang

You forgot to mention his insane and unrepeatable .39X BABIP

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That's implied by the "he can't sustain a .300 average." ;)

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

That's implied by the "he can't sustain a .300 average." ;)

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Not implied very well >:|

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Originally Posted by 200tang

I won't post all of it because it's subscriber content only, but for anyone who doesn't see how Arizona lost this deal :

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I don't think you can say anyone "lost" the deal until the season starts (and with the amount of young players involved), probably a few years down the road. Jackson could be elite in the NL. He could also be a dud.

Scherzer could get hurt or just never progress. Schlereth hasn't shown anything but his ability to give up hits at the big league level.

There's a reason the Mariners balked at Morrow + Kelley for Edwin Jackson. I've heard that JackZ guy is a pretty good scout.

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Originally Posted by skudplayr

I don't think you can say anyone "lost" the deal until the season starts (and with the amount of young players involved), probably a few years down the road. Jackson could be elite in the NL. He could also be a dud.

Scherzer could get hurt or just never progress. Schlereth hasn't shown anything but his ability to give up hits at the big league level.

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Obviously any deal can turn out bad or good based on unforeseen circumstances. Just as obviously, though, all we have now to evaluate the deal on is...well....what we currently know. And based on what we currently know, it isn't a good deal for Arizona. Just because there are possible outcomes where it winds up good for Arizona doesn't mean we can't evaluate the trade at the present time.

Curtis Granderson could get hit by a bus tomorrow, resulting in the Yankees having given up three players for nothing - obviously a terrible situation. That doesn't mean that we can't evaluate this deal as a good one for the Yankees.

What the hell were the Diamondbacks thinking :confused:

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Originally Posted by skudplayr

Scherzer could get hurt

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Bringing up injuries with no history or age factor is pretty useless. You always evaluate based on what you know.

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Originally Posted by 200tang

There's a reason the Mariners balked at Morrow + Kelley for Edwin Jackson. I've heard that JackZ guy is a pretty good scout.

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I really appreciate Zduriencik for that. I think this makes up for him screwing us on Washburn. If he hadn't turned that down, we couldn't have stolen Scherzer.

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Originally Posted by metsguy234

I think the Tigers win this deal if the specs pan out.

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Astute observation Watson.

http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/files/...ock_holmes.jpg

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Granderson is not a "slightly above average player." I don't know why so many people seem to be underrating him so much. He's an above average hitter with plus defense in center field and excellent baserunning. That's an all-star caliber player.

Also, Granderson is signed to a relatively cheap long-term deal:

10:$5.5M
11:$8.25M
12:$10M
13:$13M club option ($2M buyout)

The 2013 option price increases under the following conditions:

$15M if MVP (1st - 5th) in 2011 or 2012
$14M if All Star in 2011 or 2012
$13.5M if All Star selection in 2011 or 2012

For a player of Granderson's caliber, that money is chump change for the Yankees.

In this thread, I see two consistent trends - an underrating of Curtis Granderson and an overrating of the Yankees prospects. Austin Jackson is the only one of any real significance that they gave up, and that's assuming he develops properly. He can't be expected to maintain a .300 batting average because of his high strikeout rate and he does not have the power or walk rate to be a plus offensive player with a low batting average. Curtis Granderson is essentially Jackson's ceiling, and that's if he suddenly sprouts power.

Ian Kennedy isn't anything special. By serious prospect evaluators, he was always seen as a solid #3/4 starter with a high chance of reaching that and a slight chance of being slightly better than that, but it remains to be seen how well Kennedy has recovered from his aneurysm.

Phil Coke is a homer prone lefty reliever. Those guys are plentiful. He's of zero consequence.

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1) i didn't say it was a terrible or even a bad deal for the yanks.

2) i see a third consistent trend, at least from a few..and thats the underrating of what the yankees gave up. some/you act as if they gave up nothing because they could replace it. its still talent they could have used in a different trade elsewhere. I think Coke had alot of value for them, as he pitched in almost half their games, is young and still developing, had good WHIP numbers. Young developing lefty's with his potential are not a drop in the bucket.

3) i think granderson is overrated. sure he's had some pop in massive DET but i've watched alot of his games and he seems overmatched at the plate alot. his OBP this year was very low, he strikes out a ton and defensively (or baserunning for that matter) i don't see him as much of an upgrade over what NYY had in CF. They added some pop to a lineup that didn't need it, and moved alot of other resources that could have been used to bring in a Halladay or other top flight arm.

4) his contract is cheaper than i thought it was, but i wouldn't exactly call it cheap. not pricey though in yankee terms.