Pedroia to SS

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Originally Posted by gosensgo101

Both Pedroia and Hill were shortstops until they reached the big leagues. As long as they have the arm, they would adapt quickly to the rest of the quirks of being a shortstop instead of a second baseman.

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You have no way of knowing they will adept quickly. Schumaker was an IF when he came up but it still took him almost the entire year to adapt and even then it was one of the rare occurrences and moving to 2B which isn't anywhere near as tough as SS.

If you want to think it's easy because he played it 5 years ago and has a strong arm then go ahead, but it's not.

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Originally Posted by haveacigar

The upgrade wouldn't be Pedroia -> Phillips. The upgrade would be whatever bum plays SS -> Phillips, because the lineup would still have Pedroia in it. And I'm betting SS -> Phillips would be way more than marginal (especially if it's Alex Gonzalez)

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i don't think phillips is that great an offensive player, and there is potentially a significant downgrade defensively. phillips may hit some HR's but has horrible OBP. a little offense for possibly a big downgrade defensively, no thanks. Also, is phillips even a FA, or does he have to be traded for? finally, moving positions OFTEN effects a players offense as they adjust to a new position. The team can't afford a down year offensively from Pedroia.

I don't see any real benefit from this, unless you were to tell me they had a trade lined up for an Utley, or a significant 2B offensively & defensively.

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Originally Posted by gosensgo101

Both Pedroia and Hill were shortstops until they reached the big leagues. As long as they have the arm, they would adapt quickly to the rest of the quirks of being a shortstop instead of a second baseman.

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and Pedroia was moved because the team felt he didn't have what was necessary defensively at SS. at least I recall hearing that. I see no other reason to move him...its not as if the Sox had a SS at the major level taht was a mainstay. They dealt Nomar in one of Pedey's first years in the minors.

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Originally Posted by dickay

and Pedroia was moved because the team felt he didn't have what was necessary defensively at SS. at least I recall hearing that. I see no other reason to move him...its not as if the Sox had a SS at the major level taht was a mainstay. They dealt Nomar in one of Pedey's first years in the minors.

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They also had no one to play 2B. The only other 2B on the roster at the time was Alex Cora (woo-f'ing-hoo for that one), and IIRC they had just signed Julio Lugo to play SS, and that was supposed to be a good signing for the offense.

Potentially, it wouldn't be Brandon Phillips the Sox would be replacing 2B with. Orlando Hudson is a decent defender who can hit for a decent average (at least better then the bums at SS). Or hell Placido Polanco also.

Though O-Dawg is 32 next season it could potentially be a better move to go into the market looking for a position that has a plethora of decent players then playing the Marco Scutaro sweepstakes and potentially losing out on him.

Pedroia moving to SS we won't know if it will work until next year, but if the Sox can convince him and will take the risk...I think it pans out better.

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Originally Posted by dickay

i don't think phillips is that great an offensive player, and there is potentially a significant downgrade defensively. phillips may hit some HR's but has horrible OBP. a little offense for possibly a big downgrade defensively, no thanks. Also, is phillips even a FA, or does he have to be traded for? finally, moving positions OFTEN effects a players offense as they adjust to a new position. The team can't afford a down year offensively from Pedroia.

I don't see any real benefit from this, unless you were to tell me they had a trade lined up for an Utley, or a significant 2B offensively & defensively.

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All valid points.

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Originally Posted by dickay

wasn't one of the reasons he was moved to 2B because of his poor defense at SS in the minors? i don't know if it was his fielding or range, but i always thought there was something they didn't like about him at SS. If i'm not mistaken, didn't he play some at SS during one of the past two spring trainings, and Tito wasn't very happy with it? Again, not sure.

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Originally Posted by dickay

and Pedroia was moved because the team felt he didn't have what was necessary defensively at SS. at least I recall hearing that. I see no other reason to move him...its not as if the Sox had a SS at the major level taht was a mainstay. They dealt Nomar in one of Pedey's first years in the minors.

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In the ESPN article, Pedroia mentioned that he weighed more in spring training years back from excessive weight training and that had an impact on his poor performance at shortstop.

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Originally Posted by dickay

wasn't one of the reasons he was moved to 2B because of his poor defense at SS in the minors? i don't know if it was his fielding or range, but i always thought there was something they didn't like about him at SS. If i'm not mistaken, didn't he play some at SS during one of the past two spring trainings, and Tito wasn't very happy with it? Again, not sure.

i don't see a real benefit personally. unless they have a 2B in mind that would be a big upgrade, i don't see how a potential downgrade defensively from the move can make up for a marginal offensive upgrade in a Brandon Phillips. I just don't see how it makes sense.

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he moved to 2B because they had Hanley

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Originally Posted by Ninetyfourgoali

he moved to 2B because they had Hanley

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Originally, yes, but later on after they had traded Hanley I'm pretty sure it had more to do with the signing of Lugo and the fact that they had no one else to play 2B.

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Originally Posted by 200tang

You have no way of knowing they will adept quickly. Schumaker was an IF when he came up but it still took him almost the entire year to adapt and even then it was one of the rare occurrences and moving to 2B which isn't anywhere near as tough as SS.

If you want to think it's easy because he played it 5 years ago and has a strong arm then go ahead, but it's not.

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OF to 2B is a whole lot harder to get used to than 2B to SS. Not even in the same conversation.

My general take is that if a guy is moved from one position to a less demanding position, there's probably a reason for that, and I don't see much value in moving him back. The exception would be in the situation where a team already has a great player (or a guy that they think is great) at the more demanding position, and now that guy has retired/gotten hurt/left as a free agent/been traded.

Moving to Pedroia specifically, well, while I think that maybe a lot of people would consider me one of the more hardcore stats guys, along with HGM, when you're considering moving a player to a different position is one of the situations where you absolutely don't want to rely on stats--you definately have to watch him in action a lot to get any feel for how he might do, and I haven't seen Pedroia enough to have a solid opinion.

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Originally Posted by dps

My general take is that if a guy is moved from one position to a less demanding position, there's probably a reason for that, and I don't see much value in moving him back. The exception would be in the situation where a team already has a great player (or a guy that they think is great) at the more demanding position, and now that guy has retired/gotten hurt/left as a free agent/been traded.

Moving to Pedroia specifically, well, while I think that maybe a lot of people would consider me one of the more hardcore stats guys, along with HGM, when you're considering moving a player to a different position is one of the situations where you absolutely don't want to rely on stats--you definately have to watch him in action a lot to get any feel for how he might do, and I haven't seen Pedroia enough to have a solid opinion.

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I belive the reason was 'Hanley's a better fielder'. Its like the Jeter/Rodriguez situation (for arguments sake, lets assume that they were both good fielding shortstops when A-Rod was traded to the Yankees). Just because the player moves out of position, doesn't mean he's incapable of playing it, it just means the other guy is better (or hugely overrated). He's not going to lose that in a couple years.

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Originally Posted by gosensgo101

OF to 2B is a whole lot harder to get used to than 2B to SS. Not even in the same conversation.

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It's a more unique one, yes, but 2B is hands down the easier position. If you think 2B and SS are essentially the same then you really don't grasp how different the two positions are.

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Originally Posted by 200tang

It's a more unique one, yes, but 2B is hands down the easier position. If you think 2B and SS are essentially the same then you really don't grasp how different the two positions are.

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The two positions are drastically different. I definately don't think it will be an easy transition, but I think it would be workable. I would only want this to happen if there is a significant addition at second base. Don't want any old shmuck.

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Originally Posted by rschusta24

The two positions are drastically different. I definately don't think it will be an easy transition, but I think it would be workable. I would only want this to happen if there is a significant addition at second base. Don't want any old shmuck.

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what worries me most is a) a poor defensive season from Pedroia leaving the team stuck with little options because they signed a high dollar overrated 2B and b) a significant loss in offensive production from Pedroia as a result of the move.

lets not fool ourselves....as Sox fans we see Yuke and take him for granted. I know of very few players ever that can swap positions like he does and not see an offensive deduction.