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The players on the ballot:
Roberto Alomar
Kevin Appier
Harold Baines
Bert Blyleven
Ellis Burks
Andre Dawson
Andres Galarraga
Pat Hentgen
Mike Jackson
Eric Karros
Ray Lankford
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Don Mattingly
Fred McGriff
Mark McGwire
Jack Morris
Dale Murphy
Dave Parker
Tim Raines
Shane Reynolds
David Segui
Lee Smith
Alan Trammell
Robin Ventura
Todd Zeile
My votes would be Alomar, Blyleven, Larkin, McGwire, Raines and Trammell. Still on the fence about Edgar.
I voted without really looking anyone up....if i had a vote i would be more serious about it, but Alomar i was on the fence about. I voted Blyleven, Larkin, McGwire, Raines, and the Hawk.
Alomar I think I would actually vote for.
My voting was the same as HGM's, im on the fence with Edgar and Jack Morris.
If Jack Morris made it, he'd have a serious argument for the honor of "Worst Pitcher in the Hall of Fame."
Yeah, I know his career stats arent very good, and based on arguments I have seen here in the past makes me unsure of whether to get a guy into a Hall based on postseason performances.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
I used to buy into playoff performances, not so much anymore.
The thing with Morris is that he doesn't even have a particularly great postseason record. He has that one amazing game. That's it. Without that ONE single game, nobody would talk about him as a great postseason pitcher, because, outside of that, he wasn't anything special.Quote:
Originally Posted by ragecage
And I don't think any postseason performance could push a slightly above-average innings eater from the realm of "very good" to "Hall of Famer."
To be honest his playoff record isn't very good either. He had that one great series in '91 and everyone remembers that.Quote:
Originally Posted by ragecage
I voted for Morris as well. I also voted for Mattingly and Mcgriff which set me apart from most people....
Fair enough. The arguments you two have made is why I didnt place a vote for him, I was just kind of wondering about him thats all.
Technically Morris seemed to average more innings per season, but yeah I see your point. Hall of very good. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Voted for the usual suspects - Alomar, Blyleven, Larkin, McGwire and Raines. But I must say that I am truly indifferent on almost all of them. I think Alomar and McGwire should get in without much question - though McGwire won't and Alomar might have trouble as well. Too much has already been said about Blyleven. And neither Raines nor Larkin are locks in my mind. So if I was voting on some other day, it might have just been Alomar and McGwire. Edgar and Trammell are probably the only two worth discussing further.
Andres :( 399 Home runs kills me every time I see it.
Somebody really voted for Lankford. :(
I guess I voted for him, even though I don't remember doing so? I also thought I voted for Tim Raines, but I didn't. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by ragecage
So if you vote for Martinez does that move you any closer to voting for Lee Smith? Or any other specialized player?.....just wondering is all.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
No. I wouldn't be voting for him because he's a DH. I'd be voting for him based on his overall value, which takes into account his lack of defensive value for the majority of his career.Quote:
Originally Posted by acetoolguy
The only reason this ballot is so backloaded with deserving candidates is writer stupidity. Blyleven should've been in with near unanimous backing in 1998. Trammell went on in 2002 and has been passed over for eight years, despite being one of the best, and one of the most unheralded SS to ever play the game. McGwire's been passed over for three years because Bud Selig and Donald Fehr couldn't get off their asses and get a drug policy with teeth into the game without Congress dragging them in kicking and screaming. Those of you that want to blackball him for steroid use should remember that virtually everyone was on something, and he was only proven to be taking Andro which was not only legal according to the laws of the land, but also to the rules governing baseball at the time. It was included in the Anabolic Steroid Control Act on March 12, 2004, by which time Big Mac had been retired for two full seasons. Remember also that he was the rookie of the year in 1987 when he hit 49 HR as a lanky 23 year old. Then there's Tim Raines, or Rickey Henderson-lite. He did what every great lead-off hitter should do. He got on base (.385 OBP) and stole lots of bases (808) at a rate that didn't damage his team's offense (84.7%). He did his job. It's not his fault that he played second fiddle to the greatest lead-off hitter and one of the greatest players of all-time. If his former teammate Andre Dawson goes in before him, I'll puke, but I won't be too surprised, given the BBWAA's record over the years. Who knows, given this years individual awards, maybe they're starting to get it...but I'll choose to be Missouri until they actually prove me wrong.
As for my votes: Bert Blyleven (for the love of God, man!), Barry Larkin, Edgar Martinez, Alan Trammell, Tim Raines, Roberto Alomar, and Mark McGwire. Why Edgar you say? Well, eventually (6 years after Frank Thomas plays his final game) there is going to be a DH in the Hall, so all the teeth gnashing, hand wringing traditionalists who revile the DH are gonna have to go through it some time. Why not this year? The fact that Seattle management was too f**ktarded to give him full-time playing time until his age 27 season should not be held against him. .312/.418/.515/.933 and a 147 OPS+ not good enough for ya? How about 8 full seasons with a 152 OPS+ or better? If that's not HOF worthy then we better start booting some people out, starting with you Jim Rice. Barry Larkin and Roberto Alomar were at the top of the class at their respective positions when they played and deserve to go in.
As for Jack Morris, c'mon. Remember that whole "best pitcher of the '80's" nonsense between Morris and Dave Stieb? Remember how Morris was given the title despite the fact that Stieb beat him six ways from Sunday during that decade, and was the far better pitcher over the course of their careers, because he had more wins during that decade? Stieb has a borderline HOF case if you take the time to look deeper than wins, Morris is in the Hall of the Good to Very Good. I see he's sucking up to the media and has even become a member by becoming a broadcaster, even though he was a complete a$$hole to them as a player. Funny that. As far as 1991 Game 7, induct the moment, but not the player if he doesn't deserve it. It's an exaggeration because he's nowhere near the class of Morris, but would you put Don Larsen in? Only if you wanted to turn it into the Hockey HOF, where everybody gets in, but his perfect game should be preserved there as it is.
I also object to the inclusion of David Segui, Eric Karros, Todd Zeile, Shane Reynolds, and Mike Jackson (nice last name ;) ). What is this the Hall of Players Who Were Barely Better Than Replacement Level Stiffs? Particularly Segui and Karros. Ugh! We don't need to send in the clowns. This is a HOF ballot. The writers make enough mistakes/throw away enough votes and this only encourages them to be idiots/punish Blyleven, McGwire, Martinez etc etc.
Kevin Appier looked like an absolute stud surefire HOF lock type pitcher for the first 8 full seasons of his career, but then injuries took their toll and he sputtered and staggered to the finish line over the final seven years. Dawson comes up just short in my book. The glittering HR and RBI numbers cannot cover up the .323 career OBP and the damage that it does to a team's offense. A HOF OF must do better than that. 1980 - 1983 Dawson, now we're talking, but after that, playing on the concrete at Stade Olympique ruined his knees and he was a shell of his former self including during his "MVP" season of 1987. He should've been paying the Red Sox and Marlins for the right to take up a roster spot over his final four seasons. Same thing with Don Mattingly from 1984 - 1987, he was a stud. Then his back went and he never came close to that level again. Dale Murphy, very nice guy, and from 1980 - 1987 there may not have been a better player. His career was a bit binary though. During his on seasons he was at a HOF level, but there aren't enough of them to compensate for his off seasons, which were quite meh. Lee Smith will once again test the voters and their stance on closers. I'll pass. The most interesting player on the ballot for me is Robin Ventura, who was an outstanding defensive 3B and a decent hitter. I think that defense makes him a borderline case for the Hall, but ultimately it comes down to the fact that you need more offensive production from the corners than he provided. As for the rest, I will choose not waste to my time, or yours. :)
Lets go baines!!
roflmao!Quote:
Originally Posted by nwuhockey
Oh sounds like a clicky error.Quote:
Originally Posted by President
He does have more hits than Derek Jeter. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by nwuhockey
.Quote:
Originally Posted by actionjackson
that's a lot of mana for a removal.
it takes alot of text.Quote:
Originally Posted by 200tang
I haven't voted in this poll yet. Off hand I'd vote for Baines, Blyleven, Dawson, Raines, and Trammel (all guys I would have voted for last year), plus McGwire (who I should have supported last time), Larkin, and Martinez. I'm on the fence with Alomar and Galaragga, and want to look at them and a couple of other guys a bit before I decide for sure. I said last year that I'd vote for Morris, but that was probably a mistake.
EDIT: Oh yeah, as for the guys like Karros who obviously aren't getting in, the policy is that the ballot is to include all players in their first year of eligibility who had the required 10 years of service unless they were basically never regulars. It's not a problem; they fall off the ballot if they don't get a decent level of support.
Voted for Alomar, Blyleven, Larkin McGriff, Raines and McGwire.
I think Larkin and Blyleven will make it in this year.
I voted Alomar, Blyleven, Trammell and Raines. I somehow completely missed seeing Barry Larkin in the poll or I would have voted for him as well.
Alomar, Blyleven, Larkin, Martinez, McGriff, McGwire, raines, and Trammel.
Roberto Alomar was the best 2nd baseman of his time. There was no better player than him during the 90's at 2B. It isn't even close. His defense and offense were top notch!
All others should go in but probably only Blyleven will get in this season :(
I'd go with Craig Biggio.Quote:
Originally Posted by rdubmu
Now, there's certainly room to disagree, but it absolutely IS close.
Im kind of wondering about Fred McGriff. Just below 500 homers, had a decent OBP of .377 and 2490 hits which isnt too bad for a power hitter. I wonder if he doesnt get enough credit just because he wasnt MVP at all.
Oddly enough the highest vote he got MVP was 4th in 93, but played for different teams...hmm.
great post AJ
and that he wasn't a very dominant pitcher.Quote:
Originally Posted by MichelleWie
He was the first great closer at the time that the position became specialized.
I don't think he is a hall of famer.
You have to be incredibly great to rack up HOF value pitching 70-80 innings a year.Quote:
Originally Posted by MichelleWie
if you take the saves out of it, lee smith was a good pitcher, not a great pitcher
He'll make it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MichelleWie
I'm on the face about whether or not I'd vote for him, leaning to no.
Over the years when you have players like Eckersley, Gossage, Fingers and compare them to the likes of Smith it isnt even close. All Smith really did was compile saves, was never dominating besides his 1983 season.Quote:
Originally Posted by MichelleWie
At the moment there is only two more closers I want to see in the Hall of Fame and thats Mariano Rivera and Trevor Hoffman.
David Segui for HOF!!!
Damn tang, messing up the vote!
I voted for Baines because nwu is the most knowledgeable person here and if he voted for him...then I will certainly do it as well.
Otherwise, my vote is totally legit.