Barring a quick collapse, Utley will sail past Sandberg.
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Barring a quick collapse, Utley will sail past Sandberg.
think so? look at where sandberg was at age 30. Great year, similar body type. If he plays out his 30's like Sandberg did, i think we have a fair debate.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Kent's defense really betrayed him. After that top 10 according to WAR (because it's simple) you've got Jackie Robinson, Ryne Sandberg, Willie Randolph, Jeff Kent and Joe Gordon.
If utley can replicate his last five years over the next five years....you have a hall of fame second basemen....who is somewhere in the top 10....ahead of sanberg yes, but i don't know if he will be able to play to that level over the next five years. I think he will at best end somewhere behind Girch, ahead of alomar and Biggio.
but right now, to this point of age, i think he is more similar to Sanberg than he is to players like Alomar and Biggio. Which isn't exactly a negative thing.
ah, i forgot about Gordon and Randolph!
Good players. Where is Morgan in lifetime WAR?
Sandberg was effectively done at 32.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffy25
Sandberg's best 6 years by OPS+ (his 7th best was a far drop off at 111):
146, 140, 140, 138, 134, 132
Utley's five full seasons so far:
146, 136, 135, 132, 125
In WARP3, Sandberg's career total was 69.1. Utley so far is at 39.9. Utley's kept a steady 8 win pace for the last 3 seasons. He'll pass Sandberg with just a couple more seasons at or near his established level.
But if he collaspes like Sanberg did in 93, they would really rival each other though. If he can sustain his production another 5 years, then yes....as i said....he would surpass him. But I don't think he can reach the top 5. I think he can reach Girch.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Whoops! Forgot Bid McPhee and Billy Herman between Jeff Kent and Joe Gordon. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by actionjackson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffy25
.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
103.5, just below Lajoie's 104.1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffy25
glad we agree ;)
:p
Hey maybe he will play at this level for another 10 years and we can talk about him being a top 5!
He'll never be better than Jackie Robinson. He was the greatest player ever.
Kthx bye phillie fans.
Ok, I fail
This one is so easy it's hard to see why you even asked.
The '98 Yankees have to be in the discussion of the best team of all time. They are certainly the best of the current generation.
The greatest difference in the the two teams? The Bullpens. Seattle's pen was below average. The Yankee pen in '98 was superb.
The 2001 Mariners also have to be in that discussion...Quote:
Originally Posted by OldYankFan
The Yankees bullpen wasn't that much different than the Mariners one, honestly. Obviously Mariano Rivera makes the Yankees one better, but the Yankees had 3 primary guys - Rivera, Mendoza and Stanton. Rivera was obviously amazing. Mendoza was good and soaked up a ton of innings and also started. Stanton was not good. Graeme Lloyd did a superb job as a lefty specialist, but only threw 37 innings. Jeff Nelson, Darren Holmes and Mike Buddie were the other relievers to throw 40+ innings. Nelson and Holmes were fine but nothing special. Buddie was poor.
The Mariners primary relievers were Kazuhiro Sasaki, Arthur Rhodes, Jose Panigua, Ryan Franklin, Jeff Nelson and Norm Charlton. Only Jose Panigua was poor. Rhodes was awesome, Sasaki was strong. Nelson, Charlton and Franklin were fine.
Really, they shape up pretty much equal except for Rivera who obviously pushes the Yankees ahead. I can't see the Mariners bullpen as below average no matter how hard I try.
The reason this question is so easy is simply because the core of the 1998 Yankees were all mainly in their 20's. The Mariners were an older squad. So, obviously, the Yankees would be the pick if you were looking to 'start a franchise.' Hindsight, of course, confirms that.