NL Cy Young Winner is...................

Well, here's the entire first round and compensation picks, to see who passed on who, as well as comparing progress between players the teams drafted.

1) Luke Hochevar (Royals)
2) Greg Reynolds (Rockies)
3) Evan Longoria (Rays)
4) Brad Lincoln (Pirates)
5) Brandon Morrow (Mariners)
6) Andrew Miller (Tigers)
7) Clayton Kershaw (Dodgers)
8) Drew Stubbs (Reds)
9) Bill Rowell (Orioles)
10) Tim Lincecum (Giants)
11) Max Scherzer (Diamondbacks)
12) Kasey Kiker (Rangers)
13) Tyler Colvin (Cubs)
14) Travis Snider (Blue Jays)
15) Chris Marrero (Nationals)
16) Jeremy Jeffress (Brewers)
17) Matt Antonelli (Padres)
18) Kyle Drabek (Phillies; compensation pick for Mets signing Billy Wagner)
19) Brett Sinkbeil (Marlins)
20) Chris Parmelee (Twins)
21) Ian Kennedy (Yankees; compensation pick for Phillies signing Tom Gordon)
22) Colton Willems (Nationals; compension pick for A's signing Esteban Loaiza)
23) Maxwell Sapp (Astros)
24) Cody Johnson (Braves)
25) Hank Conger (Angels; compensation pick for Indians signing Paul Byrd)
26) Bryan Morris (Dodgers; compensation pick for Angels signing Jeff Weaver)
27) Jason Place (Red Sox)
28) Daniel Bard (Red Sox; compensation pick for Yankees signing Johnny Damon)
29) Kyle McCulloch (White Sox)
30) Adam Ottavino (Cardinals)

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Originally Posted by Jeffy25

ya, his mechanics don't add up to stardom.

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What's not to love about his mechanics? His legs drive everything. Apparently Prior didn't use his legs enough, so his arm got overworked and look where he is now. He should've used those circus freak calves and quads more and maybe he would've survived. Of course, there's always the Dusty Baker factor to consider in his break-down. Sad, because he looked like something special coming out of USC. :(

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Originally Posted by actionjackson

What's not to love about his mechanics? His legs drive everything. Apparently Prior didn't use his legs enough, so his arm got overworked and look where he is now. He should've used those circus freak calves and quads more and maybe he would've survived. Of course, there's always the Dusty Baker factor to consider in his break-down. Sad, because he looked like something special coming out of USC. :(

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At the time, his mechanics were not loved. They are now.

i could be wrong on this, but i thought as a prospect, people thought his size and mechanics might be an issue.

I will teach my son to throw like lincey

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yamiviet

iim agree they starting to stop being in love with the winners who makes playoff. what next in their list to be less corrputed or biased? gold glove would be another

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As HGM pointed out to me earlier this week, the Gold Gloves are still in the hands of the coaches, the managers and I think the players so that mess is on them, not the writers. :p

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Originally Posted by Jeffy25

At the time, his mechanics were not loved. They are now.

i could be wrong on this, but i thought as a prospect, people thought his size and mechanics might be an issue.

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Yes, teams thought that, because they never saw anything like it before. Scared of the unknown.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by actionjackson

As HGM pointed out to me earlier this week, the Gold Gloves are still in the hands of the coaches, the managers and I think the players so that mess is on them, not the writers. :p

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Just the coaches and managers :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BINGLEBOP

Well, here's the entire first round and compensation picks, to see who passed on who, as well as comparing progress between players the teams drafted.

1) Luke Hochevar (Royals)
2) Greg Reynolds (Rockies)
3) Evan Longoria (Rays)
4) Brad Lincoln (Pirates)
5) Brandon Morrow (Mariners)
6) Andrew Miller (Tigers)
7) Clayton Kershaw (Dodgers)
8) Drew Stubbs (Reds)
9) Bill Rowell (Orioles)
10) Tim Lincecum (Giants)
11) Max Scherzer (Diamondbacks)
12) Kasey Kiker (Rangers)
13) Tyler Colvin (Cubs)
14) Travis Snider (Blue Jays)
15) Chris Marrero (Nationals)
16) Jeremy Jeffress (Brewers)
17) Matt Antonelli (Padres)
18) Kyle Drabek (Phillies; compensation pick for Mets signing Billy Wagner)
19) Brett Sinkbeil (Marlins)
20) Chris Parmelee (Twins)
21) Ian Kennedy (Yankees; compensation pick for Phillies signing Tom Gordon)
22) Colton Willems (Nationals; compension pick for A's signing Esteban Loaiza)
23) Maxwell Sapp (Astros)
24) Cody Johnson (Braves)
25) Hank Conger (Angels; compensation pick for Indians signing Paul Byrd)
26) Bryan Morris (Dodgers; compensation pick for Angels signing Jeff Weaver)
27) Jason Place (Red Sox)
28) Daniel Bard (Red Sox; compensation pick for Yankees signing Johnny Damon)
29) Kyle McCulloch (White Sox)
30) Adam Ottavino (Cardinals)

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I always like to look back at drafts.

i do it a lot.

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Just the coaches and managers :)

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Yes, I knew you'd be along to correct me and that's why I said I think the players. ;) :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jeffy25

I always like to look back at drafts.

i do it a lot.

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Personally, I find that to be an exercise in self-flagellation and most people come to conclusions about players way to soon. I see it in comments sections everywhere. "Stupid GM X, should've taken player Y". Around here the hue and cry was "Why did J.P. take Ricky Romero ahead of Troy Tulowitzki." When Romero started off with a bang this year and Tulo was coming off a horrible 2008 and looked to be just as bad at the start of this year, it was "Troy who?". By the end of the year it was back to "Stupid J.P." Don't get me wrong I would much rather have Tulo, but it just shows to go you the insanity of fandom. We're still only 4 years removed from the Tulo/Romero draft. Patience grasshoppers. The results will be in in due time. To conclude anything about the 2006 draft (Reynolds/Lincecum/Snider etc) before 2011 isn't really fair to the late bloomers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by actionjackson

Personally, I find that to be an exercise in self-flagellation and most people come to conclusions about players way to soon. I see it in comments sections everywhere. "Stupid GM X, should've taken player Y". Around here the hue and cry was "Why did J.P. take Ricky Romero ahead of Troy Tulowitzki." When Romero started off with a bang this year and Tulo was coming off a horrible 2008 and looked to be just as bad at the start of this year, it was "Troy who?". By the end of the year it was back to "Stupid J.P." Don't get me wrong I would much rather have Tulo, but it just shows to go you the insanity of fandom. We're still only 4 years removed from the Tulo/Romero draft. Patience grasshoppers. The results will be in in due time. To conclude anything about the 2006 draft (Reynolds/Lincecum/Snider etc) before 2011 isn't really fair to the late bloomers.

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Oh, i don't look at it like that.

I just like to see the steals, i like to see how players have progressed through their careers.

You see first round players who were great specs, and are out of baseball having never played in the big leagues ever....and then you see guys like Pujols.

I just like to see it. obviously gm's didn't know how players will turn out when the drafts are made.

How many first overall picks have had valuable careers?

A rod and griffey and a small number of others?

It's just fun to watch.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by actionjackson

Personally, I find that to be an exercise in self-flagellation and most people come to conclusions about players way to soon. I see it in comments sections everywhere. "Stupid GM X, should've taken player Y". Around here the hue and cry was "Why did J.P. take Ricky Romero ahead of Troy Tulowitzki." When Romero started off with a bang this year and Tulo was coming off a horrible 2008 and looked to be just as bad at the start of this year, it was "Troy who?". By the end of the year it was back to "Stupid J.P." Don't get me wrong I would much rather have Tulo, but it just shows to go you the insanity of fandom. We're still only 4 years removed from the Tulo/Romero draft. Patience grasshoppers. The results will be in in due time. To conclude anything about the 2006 draft (Reynolds/Lincecum/Snider etc) before 2011 isn't really fair to the late bloomers.

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absolutely, i say you can't honestly know what kind of a prospect you have until they are at least 25-26. players can fazzle out just as quickly as they were good for example.

it's kind of like if tulo goes down with a career ending injury next year, and romero ends up slowly improving each year for the next 8. then it wouldn't be stupid j.p.

you can't hate on the team that made the draft selections. It isn't really fair at all.

I just like to look back, see the results, see how players turned out etc.

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Originally Posted by Jeffy25

How many first overall picks have had valuable careers?

A rod and griffey and a small number of others?

It's just fun to watch.

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WAR.

Did not make majors:
Steve Chilcott
Brien Taylor

< 0 - 10 WAR:
Ron Blomberg
Tim Foli
Mike Ivie
Danny Goodwin (was selected 1st overall twice 1971 and 1975)
Dave Roberts
David Clyde
Bill Almon
Al Chambers
Paul Wilson
Shawn Abner
Matt Anderson
Shawon Dunston

10.1 - 20 WAR:
Jeff Burroughs
Jeff King
Phil Nevin
Kris Benson
Ben McDonald

20.1 - 30 WAR:
Floyd Bannister
Bob Horner
Mike Moore
Darin Erstad
Tim Belcher

30.1 - 40 WAR:
Harold Baines
B.J. Surhoff
Andy Benes

40.1 - 50 WAR:
Daryl Strawberry

70.1 - 80 WAR:
Chipper Jones
Ken Griffey, Jr.

90+ WAR:
Alex Rodriguez

I didn't list the following guys above because they're still playing and it's too early to really put them anywhere:

Adrian Gonzalez
Pat Burrell
Josh Hamilton
Joe Mauer
Justin Upton
Tim Beckham
David Price
Luke Hochevar
Delmon Young
Brian Bullington
Stephen Strasburg
Matthew Bush

http://www.mercurynews.com/sports/ci_13828847

I laughed my ass off at this part:

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Whichever, apparently it was this new-age criteria that put Lincecum over the top. It inspired two voters to omit Carpenter entirely from their ballots. One of them, ESPN.com’s Keith Law, defended his position with a treatise which ended, “As for the win total of each pitcher: I ignored that, because, as I’ve said for years, it tells us nothing useful about how well the pitcher performed.”

Yes, you read that correctly. No doubt we can look forward to the day when some cipher jockey reviews the 1968 season, in which 31-game winner Denny McLain was the unanimous pick as the AL Cy Young. There he discovers, using statistical models such as FIP, VORP, THPPP and NYUK-NYUK-NYUK, that Baltimore’s Tom Phoebus actually had a vastly superior season.

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Didn't even bother to read the rest. The amount of idiocy and ignorance packed into that excerpt is just absolutely hilarious.

But alas, Tim Lincecum's NYUK-NYUK-NYUK rules the day!

So basically his point is that ignorance is bliss?

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Originally Posted by ragecage

So basically his point is that ignorance is bliss?

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Sorry, you root for the A's, anything you say is invalid. Stupid Beane and his 'moneyball' ruined baseball by introducing stats like OBP and Nyuk-Nyuk-Nyuk.

Freakin' nerd.

You forgot THPPP!!!

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Originally Posted by 200tang

Sorry, you root for the A's, anything you say is invalid. Stupid Beane and his 'moneyball' ruined baseball by introducing stats like OBP and Nyuk-Nyuk-Nyuk.

Freakin' nerd.

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Why dont you go to Wala Wala.

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Originally Posted by ragecage

Why dont you go to Wala Wala.

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Is that some kind of nerd stat :rolleyes:? Maybe if you got your nose out of your spreadsheets you could get a job and move out of your mom's basement.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 200tang

Is that some kind of nerd stat :rolleyes:? Maybe if you got your nose out of your spreadsheets you could get a job and move out of your mom's basement.

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And stop creating stats for the sole purpose of screwing up the Cy Young voting!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 200tang

Is that some kind of nerd stat :rolleyes:? Maybe if you got your nose out of your spreadsheets you could get a job and move out of your mom's basement.

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Well maybe if you didnt get rained on so much.....yeah I have nothing.

WAIT...

Youre a stupid face. Stupid face.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

WAR.

Did not make majors:
Steve Chilcott
Brien Taylor

< 0 - 10 WAR:
Ron Blomberg
Tim Foli
Mike Ivie
Danny Goodwin (was selected 1st overall twice 1971 and 1975)
Dave Roberts
David Clyde
Bill Almon
Al Chambers
Paul Wilson
Shawn Abner
Matt Anderson
Shawon Dunston

10.1 - 20 WAR:
Jeff Burroughs
Jeff King
Phil Nevin
Kris Benson
Ben McDonald

20.1 - 30 WAR:
Floyd Bannister
Bob Horner
Mike Moore
Darin Erstad
Tim Belcher

30.1 - 40 WAR:
Harold Baines
B.J. Surhoff
Andy Benes

40.1 - 50 WAR:
Daryl Strawberry

70.1 - 80 WAR:
Chipper Jones
Ken Griffey, Jr.

90+ WAR:
Alex Rodriguez

I didn't list the following guys above because they're still playing and it's too early to really put them anywhere:

Adrian Gonzalez
Pat Burrell
Josh Hamilton
Joe Mauer
Justin Upton
Tim Beckham
David Price
Luke Hochevar
Delmon Young
Brian Bullington
Stephen Strasburg
Matthew Bush

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thanks for the breakdown, but maybe not use war for pitchers, but maybe something similiar?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jeffy25

thanks for the breakdown, but maybe not use war for pitchers, but maybe something similiar?

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That's not Fangraphs WAR. It's a different system.

ic, the pitchers seemed properly placed so ya

One thing to keep in mind about first round picks is that a lot of guys fall out of the first round in to rounds 3-6 because of injuries or signability reasons, but are considered 1st round talents by most. A lot of first round guys are 'safe picks' meaning that they have a higher floor than the 'boom or bust' type picks later on.

Just this year we saw the Pirates take Tony Sanchez because his absolute floor was a backup catcher with a decent chance to be an above average catcher.

Lincecum smokes pot what a bum!!!!

I wish teams would quit worrying about the dollar amounts of signing players when determing who to pick. take the best talent. Worry about negotiating later, but get the best talent. You see teams like the royals and pirates pass on solid players because they are afraid of what the bonuses will be and then here we are free agent time, and they are going to spend more money on veteran players that can not help the team over the next several years.

at least with young talent you get them locked up for a minimal of 6 years.

i understand you don't want to pay over slot and you can't break the bank, but sometimes it's like....hey we don't want player A even though we are fairly certain he will become an big impact player because he is going to cost us 6 million to sign, so we will take player B who is a safer pick with not a high ceiling for 3 million.

but during free agency we will sign someone like Jose Guillen to ****ing 36 million.

The worst part about that Tony Sanchez pick was that they were trying to save money to sign Sano, but then the Twins signed him instead :|.

I'm not sure what other picks they had, but that COULD have made up for going under slot, but considering it was the 4th pick in the draft, they would need a big draft to make up for it. I'll check it out and update this post in a a few minutes.

Update - It does look like the Pirates went way over slot in the later part of their draft.

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QUICK TAKE
Pittsburgh heeded MLB's guidelines with the No. 4 pick, choosing Sanchez over more highly regarded players, then spent big money lower in the draft, going well over slot to land Dodson ($600,000), Von Rosenberg ($1.2 million) and Cain ($1,125,000).

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Originally Posted by OregonDuck1989

Lincecum smokes pot what a bum!!!!

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And he's a hippie. GET A HAIRCUT HIPPIE!

Wait until he's on a real American team like the New York Yankees and he has to cut those girly locks.

Attachment 27812

ya, watched his interview earlier today.

he looked a lil less worn out last year.

fun etc......maybe he has been stressed? just the hair? no beanie? i dunno. He looked better last year for the press conference

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Originally Posted by BINGLEBOP

And he's a hippie. GET A HAIRCUT HIPPIE!

Wait until he's on a real American team like the New York Yankees and he has to cut those girly locks.

Attachment 27812

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He maybe such a hippie he will say, "I'm sticking it to the man, I don't want to support such coorporations (Yankees)!"

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/ch...php?chatId=678

Prior to the announcement:

Kyle2099 (San Fran): Joe, Who wins today's NL Cy Young and is it the same person who'd receive your vote?

Joe Sheehan: I think Wainwright wins it in a strongly split vote. I went with Lincecum, but I can't emphasize this enough: there is no wrong answer among the top three candidates.

I left out the part about the thwpp's and thwops.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

http://www.mercurynews.com/sports/ci_13828847

I laughed my ass off at this part:


Didn't even bother to read the rest. The amount of idiocy and ignorance packed into that excerpt is just absolutely hilarious.

But alas, Tim Lincecum's NYUK-NYUK-NYUK rules the day!

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Well, rate-wise in 1968, Luis Tiant definitely has a case, and he has a 7.2 - 5.9 edge in WAR, but the near 80 extra IP probably sinks him. As for Phoebus, um, thanks for playing, try again. Please learn to analyze these things before making yourself look like a complete mor0n. Of course learning to analyze these things would force you to move back into your mother's basement and cross over to the Dark Side. :D

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/spo...A?OpenDocument

All 32 NL ballots. Nothing surprising, of course.

Marc (Big D): I think Rob Neyer might have summed up your best defense in a tweet. Something like "It is perfectly acceptable for 7 voters to have Carp 3rd, but an outright travesty for 2 to have him 4th?".

Klaw (2:16 PM): I like that. And I'll end on that note.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Marc (Big D): I think Rob Neyer might have summed up your best defense in a tweet. Something like "It is perfectly acceptable for 7 voters to have Carp 3rd, but an outright travesty for 2 to have him 4th?".

Klaw (2:16 PM): I like that. And I'll end on that note.

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Awesome... forgot about his chat and I'm reading his chat transcript now. I forgot all about Lincecum's arbitration.

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Andrew (Florham Park, NJ):
Now that he has wrapped up his second straight Cy, what kind of numbers will we see in Timmy's arbitration case? This has to be an unprecedented number, does it not? Is 17-18 million realistic?

Klaw:
Ryan Howard went to arb with a RoY and an MVP and won $10 million. Lincecum goes with two CYA; I think $10 million is a floor. Sky is the limit on where he could file - there is no clear precedent.

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David (Denver):
So how screwed are the Giants with Lincecum's arbitration? Nobody's ever done what he has at this stage of his career. What kind of bid are we looking at here - 15M? 18M? If they go the long-term deal route, is 5/100M reasonable at this point?

Klaw:
If he was a free agent today, what would he get? $20 million plus? Probably. He could easily go 13-16-20-22 in arbitration, which is terrifying in what it could do to the system (under the theory that one big award to a top-tier player raises the ceiling for everyone below him). Not only do I think the Giants should long-term him, I think MLB will probably encourage them to do so.

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And it would be in the giants best interest to do so

They should just trade him for prospects.

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Originally Posted by skudplayr

They should just trade him for prospects.

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They already have one of the better minor league systems (Hopefully Sabean stops trading them for questionable returns :|). Lincecum is someone you hold on to.

Dammit Madden and Davidoff... you both are making NY look bad... neither of you picked Carp? Wtf