Zack Greinke wins AL Cy Young

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by metsguy234

Ya rly

I expected the fact that he played for a last place Royals team to get in the way.

---

It's not the MVP vote. There's no sort of vague term like "valuable." It's simply the award for the best pitcher in the league. I'm surprised it was such a landslide...not because he was on a last place team but because he had just 16 wins (which is a by-product of being on a last place team). If somebody had won 20, I think it would've been a lot closer....and of course, if that was the case, that would just go to show the utter ridiculousness of pitcher evaluation in the mainstream media.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/18/sp...18pitcher.html

Brian Bannister introduced Greinke to the concept of FIP. I like the quote from Greinke:

Quote:

---

“That’s pretty much how I pitch, to try to keep my FIP as low as possible,” Greinke said.

---

the end of the article says a lot about his personality....wonder if that could have any effect on his career and ability to repeat this year.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeffy25

the end of the article says a lot about his personality....wonder if that could have any effect on his career and ability to repeat this year.

---

I don't see any reason it would.

well there were two schools of thought to my comment.

1. he could be immune to the normal slump a.l. pitchers have gotten in from the last five years due to his lack of accepting the popularity or any differences. Which could possibly have effected some of those winners (not Santana).
2. He could potentially always have these issues and desire for seclusion and subconsciously not want any attention and possibly limit himself from the spot light.


of course, it's more likely it won't change anything from any other pitchers, and it would be impossible to really ever know

I think if the spotlight were to affect him it would have already, right? After the first month of the season everyone knew who he was and was comparing him to Pedro's years of dominance.

He doesn't like to talk to people he doesn't know that well. That's the extent of his ordeal these days. If it were an issue, he would've faltered when all eyes were on him during his historic start to the year or at the end of the year when he was clearly the favorite in the Cy Young race (including the Yankees forcing him to hold a press conference when the Royals visited Yankee Stadium..despite him not pitching in the series). He did fine and it will not affect his performance...other than he is MUCH less likely to go to a big market team than most free agents.

thanks KK, appreciate the insight from a Royals fan.

Personally, i didn't put a lot of merit to the thought or theory, just that it could be possible. Thanks for the clarification

Quote:

---

Verlander’s first-place vote was cast by Steve Kornacki of Booth Newspapers in Michigan.

---

Who should never get another vote for any award. What the hell was his reasoning?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by free2131

Who should never get another vote for any award. What the hell was his reasoning?

---

http://www.mackavenuetigers.com/home...oung-vote.html

Quote:

---

Verlander received my first-place vote because nobody was tougher on the mound with the season on the line for his team.

He threw at least 120 pitches in six of his last eight outings and won his last three starts, forcing a one-game playoff against the Minnesota Twins with his final victory.

He was an inspirational "horse," using Tigers manager Jim Leyland's term for him, on a fading team.

---

In other words, "I'm a homer and am now spouting ******** to justify my choice."

I already told you Kornacki is a moran. What more do you want?

he isn't the first voter to be a homer either.

it's annoying, but you can't say, you can't vote for the player in their city.

You just need to weed these rare guys out.

His reasoning was terrible though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

http://www.mackavenuetigers.com/home...oung-vote.html



In other words, "I'm a homer and am now spouting ******** to justify my choice."

---

By that "logic" a guy that goes 5-17 - 6.25 ERA could win by going 5-0 - 1.15 ERA in September.

Where's my homer thread when I need it...

Quote:

---

[bLJllshit]He threw at least 120 pitches in six of his last eight outings...[/bLJllshit]

---

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

HA.

I have to laugh to keep from crying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by free2131

By that "logic" a guy that goes 5-17 - 6.25 ERA could win by going 5-0 - 1.15 ERA in September.

Where's my homer thread when I need it...



HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

HA.

I have to laugh to keep from crying.

---

Dude, relax. It's just a moran being a moran. Not that funny.

free, email him ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by haveacigar

Dude, relax. It's just a moran being a moran. Not that funny.

---

Yeah, I know, I'm not really that worked up about it. I just saw that Greinke got all but 3 FP votes, and I saw that Hernandez got the other 2 and I thought, "Wow, they might have come close to getting everything just about right," and then I saw a FP vote for Verlander...

No biggie. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeffy25

free, email him ;)

---

Good idea.

Quote:

---

Dear Mr. Kornacki,

FAIL.


All the best,
free2131

---

hahah


Verlander did have a great year. But by no means was his year better than Zach's legendary year, and not even better than King Felix's.

Hell I could sit here and argue that Carp and Waino could earn the cy young over lincecum, and even as a huge cards fan....if i had the vote, i would have to vote for Tim. He earned it, slightly. Even though i have already spent a ton of time trying to defend carp as the cy young....it would be hard to ignore lincecum.

You can't be a fan when you vote, you have to be an objective voter.....fandom doesn't need to be a part of it.


p.s. I keep varying on linecum and carp for the cy young winner

I would have to say without a doubt Ubaldo Jimenez is the Cy Young award winner because he showed more grit, heart, and ability to carry a team then any other player in the league.

His pitches were dirty when all others were clean. He struck guys out who supposedly were impossible to strike out (I'm looking at you Adam Dunn) and he went out there and he put that Colorado team on his back. I mean who else played well in Colorado? Tulo? Fowler? Gonzalez? HA! If it weren't for Ubaldo Jimenez and his grit we would have lost 150 games at the least.

I am still really hoping that Carp wins it ;)

I am just not counting on it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OregonDuck1989

I would have to say without a doubt Ubaldo Jimenez is the Cy Young award winner because he showed more grit, heart, and ability to carry a team then any other player in the league.

His pitches were dirty when all others were clean. He struck guys out who supposedly were impossible to strike out (I'm looking at you Adam Dunn) and he went out there and he put that Colorado team on his back. I mean who else played well in Colorado? Tulo? Fowler? Gonzalez? HA! If it weren't for Ubaldo Jimenez and his grit we would have lost 180 games at the least.

---

and he threw the hardest ;)


and i made a change for you.

This is true. We would have lost so many games Bud Selig would add games to the season so we would have the opportunity to win one.

And we would lose those too.

I voted for Tom Glavine, because he put the Braves on his back by being released. How much heart and passion he had to be forcibly retired.

Too bad I don't have a MVP vote also.

And the joke of the day goes to.....

Quote:

---

"And Lincecum deserves another trophy - pot head or not - the guy can deal."

He better not deal!

---

:p

You know, free, the reason I spend so much time on this site, is to AVOID morans.

I really wish you'd stop dragging them here.

I just find them funny. Duly noted, though. No more idiots, I swears. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by free2131

I just find them funny. Duly noted, though. No more idiots, I swears. ;)

---

Sorry, here's another one. Somehow, this guy makes the more defensible choice than Verlander in Felix, yet offers an even worse explanation

Quote:

---

Greinke started the season as hot as any pitcher I’ve ever seen, going 8-1 with a 0.84 ERA in his first 10 starts, but over his next 15, he was 3-7 with a pedestrian 3.66 ERA. For those three months, he was barely one of the 10 best pitchers in the league, forget about No. 1. But his insane start allowed his overall ERA to remain low, and then his furious finish - 5-0 with a 1.29 ERA over his final eight starts - allowed him to sew up the award.

---

So, uh, ignore half of Greinke's starts and he wasn't that amazing!

:rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Sorry, here's another one. Somehow, this guy makes the more defensible choice than Verlander in Felix, yet offers an even worse explanation



So, uh, ignore half of Greinke's starts and he wasn't that amazing!

:rolleyes:

---

Yeah pretty sure you could do that with anyone. In fact, if I put together all of the innings in which Felix gave up runs, and then mashed them into like a 6 start stretch, he'd have an astronomical ERA, and it'd just be held down by all the other starts in which his ERA was 0!

I don't care what MichelleWie's gonna say, just about every poster on this forum is smarter than the average BBWAA member. Even Metsguy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/18/sp...18pitcher.html

Brian Bannister introduced Greinke to the concept of FIP. I like the quote from Greinke:

---

Zack: Sheesh, sure feels like I am pitching well. But I only have 11 wins.

Brian: You are, and people are noticing. Here, check out Fangraphs. And Rob Neyer. And Poz.

Zack: Oh, cool. But wait, I have been digging into this stuff, and...wait...did we really just trade for Yuniesky Betancourt?

Brian: Let's not got there, Zack. Stay focused. You're an awesome pitcher.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeffy25

he is being interviewed on the mlb network right now, god he is a timid guy....talks soooo slowly and so quietly.

---

I don't care how he deals with the press or how shy or anxious he is around reporters - he can flat out pitch. Not everyone can be a Mark Grace, Kevin Millar, or a David Ortiz with the media. Watching Greinke pitch is like watching a predatory animal toy with its prey before killing it. His biggest weapon is in between his ears. Not only does he have a tremendous arm, but he knows how to outsmart the hitter and he's able to add and subtract velocity on pitches of the same type like very few pitchers out there, which gives him even more weapons. I don't know what the range in his velocity is from his top end velocity to his bottom end velocity, but my guess would be anywhere from 15 to 25 mph. Yeah, and uh, don't forget the movement on those pitches. When you're a hitter with less than a second to react, that is just unfair.

Those of you with MLB Extra Innings, MLB.TV, or *ahem* other means of watching out of market games should do yourselves a favour and check this guy out. And metsguy, though I shudder to ask, since you don't think he deserved the AL Cy Young, please enlighten us with your top 3 choices.

I'm with Kowboy Koop on the big market thing. I just don't see him moving to a big market. He's very comfortable in Kansas City and I think he's a guy (given his apparent shyness and the anxiety disorder) that would have a great deal of difficulty with change or upheaval even if he instigated it. But, we all know what happens when owners flash the cash, so we'll see. In 3 years time, he may very well feel comfortable enough in his own skin to test the waters, but not right now and he doesn't have to make that decision now anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by actionjackson

I don't know what the range in his velocity is from his top end velocity to his bottom end velocity, but my guess would be anywhere from 15 to 25 mph.

---

From what I remember having seen, his top-end velocity is 95/96, while his lowest velocity, his slow curve, is in the high 60's.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by actionjackson

Those of you with MLB Extra Innings, MLB.TV, or *ahem* other means of watching out of market games should do yourselves a favour and check this guy out. And metsguy, though I shudder to ask, since you don't think he deserved the AL Cy Young, please enlighten us with your top 3 choices.

---

I'll defend metsguy here. Metsguy doesn't think that Greinke didn't deserve it. If I recall correctly, he voted for Greinke in the forum award vote that I ran. He was just surprised that Greinke did, in fact, win. I think that's pretty ridiculous itself, as it shouldn't be surprising that a guy that had an ERA nearly below 2 wins the award for best pitcher, but it's different than saying he doesn't deserve it. I am surprised it was such a landslide, though, and I hope this is an indicator of a shift in the voting, and not just due to the fact that there was no 20-game winner.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by actionjackson

I don't care how he deals with the press or how shy or anxious he is around reporters - he can flat out pitch. Not everyone can be a Mark Grace, Kevin Millar, or a David Ortiz with the media. Watching Greinke pitch is like watching a predatory animal toy with its prey before killing it. His biggest weapon is in between his ears. Not only does he have a tremendous arm, but he knows how to outsmart the hitter and he's able to add and subtract velocity on pitches of the same type like very few pitchers out there, which gives him even more weapons. I don't know what the range in his velocity is from his top end velocity to his bottom end velocity, but my guess would be anywhere from 15 to 25 mph. Yeah, and uh, don't forget the movement on those pitches. When you're a hitter with less than a second to react, that is just unfair.

Those of you with MLB Extra Innings, MLB.TV, or *ahem* other means of watching out of market games should do yourselves a favour and check this guy out. And metsguy, though I shudder to ask, since you don't think he deserved the AL Cy Young, please enlighten us with your top 3 choices.

I'm with Kowboy Koop on the big market thing. I just don't see him moving to a big market. He's very comfortable in Kansas City and I think he's a guy (given his apparent shyness and the anxiety disorder) that would have a great deal of difficulty with change or upheaval even if he instigated it. But, we all know what happens when owners flash the cash, so we'll see. In 3 years time, he may very well feel comfortable enough in his own skin to test the waters, but not right now and he doesn't have to make that decision now anyway.

---

Greinke is capable of hitting 96/97 with his fastball and 60, yes 60, with his curve. Hell, his slider alone may have a range of about 20 mph. Just a ridiculous pitcher.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KowboyKoop

Greinke is capable of hitting 96/97 with his fastball and 60, yes 60, with his curve. Hell, his slider alone may have a range of about 20 mph. Just a ridiculous pitcher.

---

Yep, I love pitchers who can do that, going from throwing bullets to tossing these mad slow pitches with huge break. It is awesome

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FloydtheBarber

Yep, I love pitchers who can do that, going from throwing bullets to tossing these mad slow pitches with huge break. It is awesome

---

I like it most with 12 - 6 curves, just seems so goofy looking against there heat, and makes the batters look even more goofy looking, haha.

Greinke has also been known to mix in an eephus pitch on very rare occasion. I don't recall him throwing one this year, but in the past I remember one that hit 53 mph..and there is also the story of him telling a teammate in the dugout that he was going to throw a 50 mph pitch, then going out and doing it.

http://www.tampabay.com/sports/baseb...icle659778.ece

Could be some exaggeration to this, I don't know.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

I'll defend metsguy here. Metsguy doesn't think that Greinke didn't deserve it. If I recall correctly, he voted for Greinke in the forum award vote that I ran. He was just surprised that Greinke did, in fact, win.

---

Thanks for the clarification HGM, and sorry Metsguy. I agree on the 20 game winner thing HGM and as you said somewhere that demonstrates the absolute idiocy of these moro(a)ns. It's like the magical 20 win mark allows them to be lazy and if nobody reaches it, they have to do some actual digging and look at something other than wins.

Re: Greinke's velocity, wow the gap is larger than I thought. Hitters must absolutely hate facing this guy and I think he's only going to get better. Hopefully, he can enjoy the game now that he's doing better with the anxiety thing, and in turn we can all enjoy watching him. :)

I don't see too many people refer to baseball-intellect.com around here but I think it's a pretty cool site.

If for nothing else than the videos.

Here's Greinke

http://www.baseball-intellect.com/sc...-zack-greinke/

Never heard of it. Thanks

Thanks for the site. Another site added to my RSS reader :3