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I got nothing against Mauer, I am old school. Back in the day the best player on the best team got to be MVP. The Yankees were the best team and so my vote goes to Tex. Now since I don't have a vote, it don't matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
I got to admit, I never even heard of advanced defensive metrics so I won't argue it. But, somebody must have thought Jeter and Teixeria could play some defense. And please don't tell me they won because they were Yankees. I hate that lame knee jerk, thoughtless and brainless, my team ain't as good as the yankees so there must be a conspiracy, style of thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by actionjackson
they won because of the defensive reputations, not because they are yankees. once you win one, it's easy to win 2,3,4 etc....the higher the number goes, the more likely you are to win another.
Tori Hunter and Ichiro would be similar examples.
Jeter's defense improved this year, but he was probably the third best defensive shortstop, and Tex wasn't even close. But it's largely a popularity vote.
If it were the Best Player on the Best Team Award, I'd pick Jeter.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldYankFan
Of course, it's the Most Valuable Player award, and always has been, even in the "old school." And that's Joe Mauer.
*COUGH* Greg Maddux *COUGH*Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffy25
The Gold Glove Awards are a popularity contest - period. Rafael Palmeiro should have proven that once and for all when he won in 1999, despite playing only 28 games at 1B. They certainly should not be taken to represent defensive excellence, as they are voted on in a knee-jerk fashion by most (not all) writers (and for lack of a better term hacks) charged with the responsibility of getting it right, and getting it so miserably wrong year after year.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldYankFan
This year, as with most others, the writers have got some serious 'splaining to do. To wit: Where were Kendry Morales at 1B, Ian Kinsler/Aaron Hill/Dustin Pedroia and possibly Robinson Cano (any one of whom would've probably been a better choice than Placido Polanco at 2B), Chone Figgins at 3B, Elvis Andrus/Adam Everett/Cesar Izturis/Alexei Ramirez (any of whom would've been a better choice than Jeter at SS), and Carl Crawford, Franklin Gutierrez, Curtis Granderson, Ryan Sweeney, David DeJesus, B.J. Upton, Shin-Soo Choo, heck even Nelson Cruz, J.D. Drew and Denard Span (if we're going to give Hunter a GG) in the OF? Did I mention that that's just the AL?
In the NL, where were Albert Pujols (very close at 1B, but I think in the end that Pujols had the better defensive year), Chase Utley/Brandon Phillips and possibly Clint Barmes at 2B, Yunel Escobar/Rafael Furcal/Hanley Ramirez/Stephen Drew/Ryan Theriot (all better than Rollins at SS), and then there are Nyjer Morgan, Hunter Pence, Aaron Rowand, Mike Cameron, Chris Young, Jayson Werth, Justin Upton, and Randy Winn in the OF? Bourn was deserving, but Kemp and Victorino? Puh-leeze.
So what did they get right? Um...Ryan Zimmerman at 3B in the NL, probably Yadier Molina and Joe Mauer at C in their respective leagues. I say probably because as tough as it is to measure defense, the catching position is by far the toughest. Michael Bourn represents a brave, solid, and accurate choice for the normally conservative writers who adore the players they see the most on the nightly Web Gems *cough* Orlando Hudson *cough, cough*. Of course you can't deny the great Ichiro his due and he'll probably win it every year until he retires.
Don't take this rant as a personal attack on you OldYankFan. This post was neither lame nor knee jerk, nor thoughtless, nor brainless. It was pretty thoroughly researched and I didn't go into it saying: "Dammit, I've got to prove that damn Yankee fan wrong". I wanted to know who was deserving and who wasn't, so I checked out several systems that objectively analyze defense and all of them said pretty much the same thing. To wit: What on earth were the writers thinking when they voted on these Gold Gloves? What criteria brought them to these choices? If anything they were the lame, knee jerk, thoughtless, brainless stiffs of which you speak.
By all means if the writers want to change the name of the award to: "The player who treats me with the most respect and is a great all around guy who keeps his nose clean" award at each position or "The most popular player" award at each position or even "The best overall player" award at each position I have no objections. None. But please don't maintain this ridiculous charade of handing out Gold Glove awards, the implication being that these are the best defensive players at each position in their respective leagues to the most popular players, regardless of whether they have soft hands or stone hands. The Rafael Palmeiro farce happened 10 years ago and this year's awards emphatically demonstrate that the writers still haven't got a clue when it comes time to hand out the hardware.
As for Jeter and Teixeira, Jeter had his best defensive season in eons, which brought him up to an average to slightly above average SS, but he was not the best in the AL. Teixeira was an above average 1B, but he was not better than Kendry Morales. Therefore, despite not being the best at their positions, they received recognition for being the best, as did a lot of other players. They won, not so much directly because they were Yankees, but indirectly because being Yankees they had the most national media coverage and therefore when the writers went to vote they popped into their foggy brains first. Jeter and Teixeira certainly aren't the only mistakes the writers made and they definitely aren't the most egregious, but they are nonetheless undeserving of the award for defensive excellence at SS and 1B repectively in the American League. Period.
AJ, want a vote?
i have no idea how anyone can argue with you, right here
I lack:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffy25
1) The credentials
2) The pickled liver
3) The alcohol addled brain (It is admittedly addled by things other than alcohol, but that is neither here nor there ;) )
4) The strong union which backs up the columnists, most of whom churn out endless piffle and fluff disguised as analysis - not you Joe Po, not you, you're terrific. We just need 59 other Joe Posnanskis and then we can get this thing right...Yeah, right! :rolleyes:
Alternatively, we could get the Fielding Bible guys to stage a massive coup and take over the BBWAA. :) ;) Joe Po is on both I think and Peter Gammons is probably on both panels as well. Anything is better than this.
I think if anyone just watched all of baseball all season, they should automatically know that Mauer is the most deserving winner. If you look at the Twins, there is no way they would have made the playoffs without Mauer. They had some great contributions late in the season with Cuddyer, but Mauer, a catcher, carried that team offensively and had a pretty damn good year behind the plate. There is just no question.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
Understand that I agree with your selection of Mauer completely, but when Jeter is in the running (as he should be) there is always a question. Personally, I think Teixeira will get it because of his near .300 average and a share of the HR lead and the outright RBI lead. The writers will use the RBI lead to stick it to those heinous "Moneyballers" and other assorted front office pocket-protector wearers that are ruining the grand old game. :rolleyes: One day the dinosaurs will die off...Won't they?Quote:
Originally Posted by rschusta24
Haha I sure as hell hope so. But unfortunately some new dinosaurs are also born haha. When Pedroia won the MVP, there was some writing in Dallas and he was no old dinosaur and when he made his reasoning for not voting for Pedroia, he said "he didn't produce enough runs". The guy got moved from doing baseball the last I heard. I guess there will always be some idiots.Quote:
Originally Posted by actionjackson
It's coaches and managers that vote, not the writers. The writers would actually probably do a slightly better job.Quote:
Originally Posted by actionjackson
Agreed. I don't understand why there is a difference in voting really. Why was it that someone said the managers and coaches vote on this. I think you're right Houston, the writers, even though they have had some flaws in the past, would do better at voting for this award.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
to play devil's advocate a bit....
wouldn't you think the coaches and managers would know the most about defensive abilities around the league?
No, they don't have time to watch every player in the league in a big enough sample size. Not that writers are really that much better either since I doubt writers watch a big enough sample size either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffy25