right, HGM didn't have it there.Quote:
Originally Posted by 200tang
greater than.
back then.
depends on the sentence structure.
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right, HGM didn't have it there.Quote:
Originally Posted by 200tang
greater than.
back then.
depends on the sentence structure.
he was worth Matt Holliday for the year ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by 200tang
Wallace maybe not, oh well. I am still happy with the deal.
lol if the Rockies win tomorrow and sweep the Dodgers they will be division champs.
Adam Moore with his first ML HR! And it's oppo field on a cold night in Seattle!
MOORE FOR PREZ!
Against one of the worst hitting teams in baseball as well! Hahahaha!Quote:
Originally Posted by 200tang
i know, never would i have thought that to be possible, but that would be amazingQuote:
Originally Posted by OregonDuck1989
That would be outrageous. I don't see it happening. Dodgers have owned us this year.
Thanks for playing, Twins. Please take Lynn Henning and Jim Price with you as you leave Detroit.
you left off that last partQuote:
Originally Posted by haveacigar
I hate the Marlins. :mad:
I hate the Rockies. :mad:
I am sad. :(
I love the Marlins :)Quote:
Originally Posted by free2131
I love the Rockies :)
I am happy :D
I feel for ya free, really I do...
There won't be a quest left after tomorrow afternoon's finale.Quote:
Originally Posted by 200tang
Well, if you would have told me that we would be in a playoff race with less that a week left in the season a month ago, I would have laughed in your face. I think that we are looking good for next year, but we desperately need a power bat for the OF or 1B.
You should move Chipper to 1B and sign Beltre.
on David Ortiz's walk-off homer last week, it took him almost 40 seconds to round the bases, including, 19 seconds to get to first.
am i the only person that takes that as some serious bad sportsmanship?
How about Nolasco last night? 9 k's in a row! pretty impressive.
bad Matt Diaz
Mebbe he has the gout;, bunions; or an ingrowing toenail?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffy25
prolllllllllllllllllllllllllly not ;)
Chris Carpenter with a grand slam!
And the 30 points in OBP, and the 130 points in SLG, etc.Quote:
the only thing that really stands out as far as stats go between the 2 is the 30pt higher ba
Jeter may have more hits and such, but Mauer missed the first month of the season.
There's also the fact that Joe Mauer is a fantastic defensive catcher and Derek Jeter is a below average shortstop.
Wow. They aren't all just Yankee fans. They also all have a man-crush on Jeter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slingshot
I'm OK with the theory that he has "been a leader year in and year out". He deserves to go into the Hall Of Fame, even if he gets hit by a bus tomorrow.
Do these guys forget that Jeter has been 30 runs below average at shortstop over the last two seasons. That's according to BP. It's even worse if you look at other attempts to analyze his fielding ability (see, for example, The Fielding Bible). And they forgot that the reigning AL Gold Glove at short got moved to 3B because of Jeter's ego (or Steinbrenner's man-love, or whatever). That means having him at short is the equivalent of adding TWO crappy fielders to your team. His low-power offense doesn't make up for that. It certainly doesn't win him the MVP race.
OK, just went to BP. They list Jeter's VORP as 64.7 and Jason Bartlett as 54.9.
VORP doesn't include defensive contributions and I don't see the defensive data for 2009. So let's just assume that Bartlett's defense is worth that average of his 2007 and 2008 seasons. And the same for Jeter. (This assumption is actually extrememly favorable to Jeter, since he is getting slower and his fielding is getting worse, and Bartlett's is probably getting better).
This gives Bartlett an extra 15.5 runs, and takes 15 away from Jeter. So here are our new VORPs:
Jeter: 49.7
Bartlett: 69.9
Not only is Jeter not the best player in his league, he isn't even the best shortstop in his own division. And it's not even close. (And that doesn't even include the defense they lost by moving A-Rod away from shortstop -- probably another 10+ runs).
Gah. This man-love for Jeter drives me nuts.
The story's different if you use UZR. Jeter posted a negative UZR every year until this year, but is actually a plus defender this year according to it at +7.2 runs. Overall, Fangraphs has him at 7.4 WAR - 37 batting runs, 7.2 fielding, 23.6 replacement, and 6.2 positional. Bartlett, on the other hand, is at 4.8 WAR - 27.7 batting runs, -4.2 fielding, 18.5 replacement, 5.7 positional.
I'm not sure what stats you're using Clay, but BP redid their defensive system, adding PBP into the mix. See Jeter's card here. He's actually been fine over recent years - about -4 runs below average. His WARP1 this year is at 6.7. Jason Bartlett has -14 FRAA this year (though he's been around +10 the previous 3 years), and a 5.1 WARP.
For what it's worth, the eyewitness accounts have backed up Jeter's defensive improvement this year.
Jeter's going to be near the top of my ballot. I haven't decided just where yet, but it won't be first or second (Mauer, Greinke).
CY YOUNG ;) :pQuote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
He's juicingQuote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
yup, his first big league home run, in around 300 at bats, in a complete hitter's ball park :pQuote:
Originally Posted by etothep
I could see Wainwright hitting a granny, but never would i have guessed Carp....he is an awful hitter.
hell bring on the juice! Carp is a freak anyway.
hahaha, let me share with the groupQuote:
Originally Posted by Slingshot
Quote:
i wouldn't be surprised if he won it,
but jeter deserves it more, and i say that not as a yankee fan, or because i played the position, but for the simple fact that in no way has he been challenged nite in and nite out like jeter has.
and, i also don't give a hoot that minn is in the running ...
the only thing that really stands out as far as stats go between the 2 is the 30pt higher ba
and if thats what you're basing it on thats just ridiculous
After being proven with statsQuote:
i cannot believe the sheit i read here half the time... jeter, a shortstop, the best athlete on the team, a leadoff hitter who has to sacrifice himself to get on base... who could never lead the team in rbi's, hittin 330 for the best team in baseball, 20 plus homers, over 200 hits, the middle infielder who's in charge of everything positional. makes plays that keep the yankees in it, . gets on base, steals bases, a right handed batter who mostly faces right handed pitches, and is the captain of the most sucessful franchise in the history of sports is not more valuable to...
mauer, a left hand hitting catcher who plays over 100 games at bandboxes, has the advantage of facing mostly right handed pitchers, and his stats, not eye popping at all, other then the average is ???????????
look past the 367 avg. and the 423 /876/0483 or whatever that bs is
Quote:
you could take your #'s and stick em where the sun don't shine.. i'll take a player like jeter who has proven himself year in and year out to be the ambassador of this game, ..
who goes to stadiums to see mauer across the country ?
funny thing..... this weekend i was in the city, while waiting to be seated at a one of the cities most popular restaurants, a kid wearing the #2 jersey , i found out was brought into nyc by his parents to go to a yankees game.. where was he from MINNESOTA
oh ya, and Carp has freaking 6 RBI's now!
I like Mauer, especially for MVP.
I remember when i first heard about him, i wanted him as a Cardinal immediately.Quote:
Originally Posted by rschusta24
scouts said he hit the ball hard into the gaps for a lefty, that the ball jumped off his bat like it did for people like Musial and Gehrig. that he didn't try to hit homers, but that he could be a high average gap hitting, left handed hitting, catcher.
I remember thinking, dude is gonna be a beast.
usually, whenever i think someone is gonna turn into a beast, it doens't happen, but i do give myself credit for being right on one guy.
Of course, you should see my long list of players that didn't pan out that i thought would. I wouldn't make a very good scout, ever....but i would have been right with my Mauer stock :p
Haha I hear ya! Mauer has an amazing looking swing too. Gotta love the lefties with such easy looking swings. JD Drew having one of the best looking swings, but can't love JD Drew. Overpaid *******!
Drew isn't overpaid. His performance over his three years in Boston, according to FanGraphs, has been worth a total of $43.4 million, for the cost of $42 million. He's actually being paid pretty much perfectly for his performance. A .900 OPS hitter with good defense in right field is a valuable player.
But Drew is unreasonably hated by Boston fans, and they never have very good reasons to hate him.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
The only thing i didn't like about Drew, was that if he didn't feel well, or was hurt just a lil, it was enough to sit out.
he would never play through any pain....i hated that.
but he is a very valuable ball player, and is unfairly hated. Any team would be lucky to have him.
All I hear is that he doesn't hit enough homers.......so what?
53 homers through 3 years in Boston, 22 this year. too many people see the shiny home runs, and think they are all that matter.....most people will look at average and home runs when looking at a players stats to assess value.....i think home runs is probably the 9th or 10th stat i look at when i look at a player's numbers (generally speaking)
I don't know how FanGraphs calculate that, but Drew is overpaid when you look at the current market.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.asp...n=2009&month=0
It suggests that 30 players have a value of over $20 million.
I'll agree that paying 15 mil a year for a 275 hitter who hits 20 homers a year doesn't sound good at first glance. but with Drew, it's all the other things...the high OBP, the great defense, the batting average with runners in scoring position, the K/BB. he does a lot of other things to make his value more relative to what he is getting paid.
I personally wouldn't want to pay someone that much for those numbers, but I do believe that the general Boston public over reacts to his contract in relation to his productivity.
It calculates based off the players WAR and the average value of a "win" on the market, which currently is about $4.5 million.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slingshot
He hit it off Kip Wells though, so it really doesn't count. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGM
The reason we hate him is because of his "streakiness" if that is even a word. We have never liked streaky players. Yes the numbers are good but he is frustrating to watch. He looks like he should bat over .300 but he just watches so many good pitches go by. Don't get me wrong, I love how good of a fielder he is, especially at Fenway but with that great looking "The Natural" swing of his, people just expect more out of him. I hate watching him watch a ton of great looking fastballs going by him. Can't complain about his on-base percentage either, haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffy25
If he didn't take so many pitches, his OBP would likely suffer (and thus, his value would go down).